2000 Ford Expedition

[jimboc]

Seeing Smoke from Tailpipe during startup. usually in the morning or after the vehicle sits overnight.
Does anyone have have a clue to what could be causing this?
Everything seems to fine. Two mechanics have checked the vehicle and were unable to detect a problem.

[Davescort97]

The valve stem seal is worn or missing or the valve stem or valve guide is worn. The condition you describe is overnight drain down. Over a period of serveral hours enough oil will "drain down" through the seals or guides causing a puff of bluish smoke when you first start it. Not really a problem once you get the engine started. Look upon it as initial upper--cylinder lubricant. Unless you see obvious smoke while driving it, it won't hurt the catylitic converter. Too much smoke will cause the converter to overheat and fail.

[JoeShmoe]

He said it wen't away when running. If its a 2000 I doubt it would be the seals, they usually go bad if the car sits for too long without the engine being turned on.

Jim, what color is the smoke?

[jimboc]

This is definitely not the cold, morning condensation burn off i am familiar with.
The Smoke is a denser White or Bluish in color and does not dissipate as quickly as condensation.

Could it be "drain down"? Does this sort of thing start happening as a vehicle begins to show it's age?

Vehicle History: 2000 Ford Expedition XLT 5.4L V8 Automatic

January 5, 2008 78000
Seeing a puff of Bluish/White Smoke from tailpipe during startups.
usually in the morning or after the vehicle sits for awhile. Smells something like burnt plastic. Two mechanics have checked the vehicle and were unable to detect a problem. Everything appears to be fine after engine has warmed up a bit.

June 15, 2007 75000
Rear Suspension "Air Bags" need to be replaced.
Air Bags connected to Rear Suspension Pump have aged and begun to leak.
Rear end of vehicle will appears to be resting on the rear tires.

June 15, 2007 75000
Rear Suspension Pump Failed
Replaced for $800 and now Rear Suspension "Air Bags" need to be replaced.

March 15, 2006 72000
Transmission Slipping
Ford rebuilt Transmission under Extended Warranty. Has been fine for 2 years.

[jimboc]

Yes, I did happen to notice that the Oil Level had gone down since the last oil change.

Jeff Compton & Mohawkmtrs
of "OBD-Codes", "Car Repair Forums"
http://www.obd-codes.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=12

Are thinking:
1. Intake Gasket Failure
2. PCV Valve Problem
3. Leaking Valve Stem Seals

[JoeShmoe]

[quote=jimboc'

Vehicle History: 2000 Ford Expedition XLT 5.4L V8 Automatic

January 5, 2008 78000
Seeing a puff of Bluish/White Smoke from tailpipe during startups.
usually in the morning or after the vehicle sits for awhile. Smells something like burnt plastic. Two mechanics have checked the vehicle and were unable to detect a problem. Everything appears to be fine after engine has warmed up a bit.

[/quote]

Sounds like the valve seals, all though I don't know if its the same in the expo's V engine as in straight 4s. I swapped them on mine but never have on my 2000 4.6.

[jimboc]

Is there a specific test that can be done to determine whether or not it is the Worn Valve Seals?

[JoeShmoe]

I don't believe so. Just know that when you blow blue smoke at take off its the seals. But if you blow blue all the time it may be rings I believe.

[jimboc]

thanks joe!

Other than the the Cylinder Leakage test, Removing the Valve Cover is the only test or way to find out if the Valve Stem Seals have Worn, split, split, cracked or become brittle? is this correct?

Mohawkmtrs Writes:
of "OBD-Codes", "Car Repair Forums": 00' Expedition Smoking
http://www.obd-codes.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=12

Davescort97's explanation is absolutely bang-on!
The valve stem seals (if I recall, will look like little o-rings on the valve stems) should be soft and supple. Over time, heat and wear-and tear will make them brittle and they may possibly crack, split, etc.

Remove the valve covers, locate the seals and check them for softness, etc. If they're cracked, broken, etc. you may find little pieces of them in the bottom of the top of the head.
Is there a specific test that can be done to determine whether or not it is the Worn Valve Seals?

Jeff Compton Writes:
yeah it's called a cylinder leakage test and you need a special tool, see a
ford dealer or a good diagnostic repair centre that's familiar with that engine!

Is there a specific test that can be done to determine whether or not it is the Worn Valve Seals?

[jimboc]

Please correct me if i'm wrong:
the vehicle has begun to burn oil
which usually starts somewhere with the Valves
then works its way to the Rings

Assuming i can confirm it is the Valves, which it probably is, we are now talking rebuild. correct?
which brings us to "Top Half" (Valve Job, Head Gaskets etc.) $2k ?
and possibly "Bottom Half" (Pistons Rings and Seals etc.) $2K ?

new Engine = $6k

[jimboc]

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/chwilk...eplacement.htm

Symptoms
The classic symptom of bad valve stem seals is, if when starting the car, after it has set for a little while (say over night), clouds of smoke appear from the exhaust and then stops after a few seconds. What happens is, while the car is setting, oil leaks down the valve stem past the seal and accumulates in the cylinder chamber. When you start the car, that oil is burned off out the exhaust pipe.

[jimboc]

My mechanic is hesitant to get started on this because he hasn't seen the smoke yet. I will have to leave it overnight with him to startup in the morning.
And while we're on the subject of the Smoke, it's not really Blue, it's Bluish. To me, with the untrained eye, it looks White and now that you mention it, it does seem to have a Bluish TINT to it. And it's denser than Condensation and dissipates at much slower rate.
Is all this correct?

[JoeShmoe]

Hold on Jim, heres a pic of what my valve seals look like. http://www.partsamerica.com/product_...28-4each-1.jpg

Now the amount for the repair is very significant.I got a quote from the mechanic and it came out to be @ $2300 because of the time involved and all the little components I was going to change anyways (water pump, timing belt, t-belt tnesioner, etc.) So I went tou and bought all the stuff myself and I spent a little under $450. 2 day job from sun up to sun down.


But that was only on a I4 Engine, not a V8 which might have a lot more components. Just a thought.

[jimboc]

Right! $2,200 was the price i was quoted twice from both the Ford Service Dept. and a Private Repair Shop. The Ford quote may have been just for the Head Gaskets. The Private Repair Shop quote was for the whole top half of the engine. Valve Job and whatever else would be required or recommended when removing the Heads.

At this point I'm not sure if i should invest this kind of money into a 7 year old car. it's a great car and expected to be fixing things at this stage but, i wasn't prepared for it to be so involved an costly.

I would actually be fine with putting $2k into if i new it would go a long way, at least 3 to 4 more years etc. without having to do the bottom half.

I haven't done work like this in years, i'm not sure i can pull off doing it myself. Does Ford put out a descriptive Service Manual?

[JoeShmoe]

Well mine is 200 as well and I keep it in good shape so I know it will last another 5 years. Its to that age where things start breaking, melting, leaking, etc. But I believe at any auto parts store you can find a Haynes Manual. The bad thing is that i don't think junkyards have expos, at least not down here in Central FL!

But Jim, I really would bother with it too much. I would fix it if it was smoking really badly.