92 Saturn - Inaccurate O2 Sensor Code

[r14penguin]

I have a 92 Saturn that puts out an O2 sensor code. So I replaced the sensor and after a few minutes the new one turns back and then puts out a code as well. Something is causing it to run rich and dirty the O2 sensor.

I have also replaced the plugs, wires, and TPS.

It also is hard to start when cold but then when it does it idles rough without stalling. When I go to accelaerate slowly the engine stalls. When I punch the gas it will hesititate but not stall.

It also is getting horrible gas mileage and puts out a lot of emission. It doesn't have any other codes besides the bad O2 sensor.

I thought it might be any number of sensors: MAF, AIS, or MAP sensor but it isn't putting out any codes so I would assume it isn't those.

any ideas?
Thanks

[sickcallawayc12]

What is the code?

[Cat Fuzz]

There is no such thing as a code that tells you that the O2 sensor is bad. If there was, a lot of mechanics jobs would be a lot easier. The O2 sensor is simply reporting what it is seeing in the exhaust: rich condition. You need to find out why the engine is running so rich. Check your air filter and intake ducting. Clean your throttle body. Replace your ECTS. The easy stuff first. Don't assume that because there are no other codes that nothing else is wrong. You could have a leaky fuel injector and that wouldn't throw a code in a million years that says anything about fuel injectors. Trouble codes only point to a possibly faulty circuit. There are a bunch of things that can cause a circuit to malfunction without said circuit being bad at all. The hard starting could be a symptom of a leaky fuel injector. Your fuel pressure could be too high. Bad regulator.

[r14penguin]

I am not sure what the code was. When I had the code read they told me it was a bad O2 sensor. I pulled the O2 sensor out and it was black. Cleaned it and the car ran better and then went back to the same way it was.

So I assumed that there is another problem. I have cleaned the intake and air filter but I haven't tried the ECTS. So I will give that a try thanks.

When I start it sometimes the idle revs up, and when I have driven it and put it into neutral.

Othertimes it will idle fine. Wouldn't a leaky injector cause it to idle poorly all the time?

Also the cooling fan doesn't kick on so maybe the ECTS will help that out as well.

Thanks for you help!

[r14penguin]

Just wondering, if my temperature gauge on my dash works that does that mean that my ECTS is working as well?

[r14penguin]

Could it be a bad EGR valve?

[samprix]

I think that the ECTS and the sensor for the temp gage two different sensors. You want to replace the sensor with two wires and the connector, as well. Search this site for instructions, if you need them. Don't get the part from your local auto parts store. There are many stories, including my own of bad ECTS right out of the box. Go to the dealer first and avoid the crap shoot.

After the ECTS and connector, then I would look at the EGR. I have heard that these rarely fail, they just get carboned up and the pintle no longer moves freely. Even if this is not the problem, it would hurt to clean it out and reinstall.

[RC1488]

Originally Posted by Cat Fuzz

There is no such thing as a code that tells you that the O2 sensor is bad. If there was, a lot of mechanics jobs would be a lot easier. The O2 sensor is simply reporting what it is seeing in the exhaust: rich condition. You need to find out why the engine is running so rich. Check your air filter and intake ducting. Clean your throttle body. Replace your ECTS. The easy stuff first. Don't assume that because there are no other codes that nothing else is wrong. You could have a leaky fuel injector and that wouldn't throw a code in a million years that says anything about fuel injectors. Trouble codes only point to a possibly faulty circuit. There are a bunch of things that can cause a circuit to malfunction without said circuit being bad at all. The hard starting could be a symptom of a leaky fuel injector. Your fuel pressure could be too high. Bad regulator.

there is a code for a bad 02 sensor. its P0133-O2 subsystem - description : slow response.

aka means get a new one. OEM are expensive tho and universals sometimes mean some cutting and splicing.

in the '92 s-series, there are two sensors, or rather a sensor and sender. once goes to the pcm and the other goes to the guage

change the ECTS to brass and get a new connector if needed. 5 min and a 14mm deep dish socket. should fix your car running rich

change your spark plugs as that might fix your acceleration issues and also since its been running rich they prolly are black now lol

Ive read the EGR effect gas milage, however it will help any idling issues. id clean it regardless just as a normal tune up procedure.

[Cat Fuzz]

Originally Posted by RC1488

there is a code for a bad 02 sensor. its P0133-O2 subsystem - description : slow response.

means get a new one. OEM are expensive tho and universals sometimes mean some cutting and splicing.

in the '92 s-series, there are two sensors, or rather a sensor and sender. once goes to the pcm and the other goes to the guage

You're referring to OBDII systems. This is a 92 and is OBDI. There is no bad O2 sensor code for OBDI.

[RC1488]

Originally Posted by Cat Fuzz

You're referring to OBDII systems. This is a 92 and is OBDI. There is no bad O2 sensor code for OBDI.

ah ha! the simple things that make the difference I take back my statement!

[pholmann09]

Check your MassAir Flow sensor, 75% of the time that you are showing something for the O2 sensor it is actually your mass air flow sensor is out of whack or it needs cleaned, the best thing to do is actually replace the maf you will see a significant gain in power as well as fuel mileage and the code will probably go away, most of the time they will use separate ect sensors one will tell the ecm what is going on and the other will tell the gauge what to say.

[RC1488]

Originally Posted by pholmann09

Check your MassAir Flow sensor, 75% of the time that you are showing something for the O2 sensor it is actually your mass air flow sensor is out of whack or it needs cleaned, the best thing to do is actually replace the maf you will see a significant gain in power as well as fuel mileage and the code will probably go away, most of the time they will use separate ect sensors one will tell the ecm what is going on and the other will tell the gauge what to say.

unfortunetly there is no mass air flow sensor in the s-series.

[Cat Fuzz]

Originally Posted by RC1488

unfortunetly there is no mass air flow sensor in the s-series.

Not only that but MAF sensors tend to be very expensive to be replacing on a hunch.

[r14penguin]

I finally got around to it this weekend....

the ECTS solved the hard starting. As for the stalling the EGR Solenoid solved that. The old one was releasing vacuum to the EGR valve too soon causing it to stall. Now it run great!

Thanks for your help.