Bet You Can't Solve This Riddle, Neon Stalling w/ Check Oil Lite-On

[dniemyjski]

I'v already took the car to the Dealership and to another mechanic. They don't know whats wrong with it. Im sure all the people automotive forms are smarter than them.

SO, This is what happens, your just driving and the car stalls and the check oil lites on. It happens so random, sometime 3 times a day, sometime once in 2 months. You can't pull any code because the check engine lite never comes on. After letting the car sit for a few minutes or diconecting the battery the car will start back-up. It has enough oil in it. I'v changed the oil pressure sensor. And if it was the oil pump , why would it work sometime and not others?

Thanks in advance,

Dan

[ikeyballz]

haha dude, same thing happens to me. what i think it is is the coil packs. try change those.

it seems as tho the plugs arent firing as the car dies... im NOT sure why the oil goes on...mine has been doing that lately but after i changed the plugs + oil it seems to work better.. im gonna do the coilpacks later.

[dniemyjski]

I guess it's worth checking out...To me it seems as if the computer is shutting the car down... I guess i'll clean all thoughs connections on the coil pack first and see what happens...It did seem to stall more in humid weather, however i just though it was a coincidence...

[denisond3]

We had our own riddle with our 97 SOHC Neon. It would shut down when you started out, doing a right turn. If you turned VERY gently, it would work fine. It worked fine going straight ahead, and it worked okay in a right hand turn with the tires squealing - as long as you were coasting. Once it had shut down, you had to remove the key and wait 30 seconds, then it would start up again. And of course this meant you had to stop the car, put it in park, to get the darn key out. Real nice in rush hour traffic!
I found the engine wiring harness to be melted into a gluey mass, where it ran behind the engine, and under the exhaust manifold. I had called the Dodge dealer, and the counterman knew what harness I meant, knew they had one in stock, and knew the price - off the top of his head. Its NOT a good sign when the counterman at the dealership knows the exact price for a wire harness for a 10 year old Neon. The price was over $600.
I checked in junkyards. The harnesses were either missing already, or were worse than mine was. !??!
I replaced 12 wires in that harness, and the connector for the cam position sensor - and the problem has never happened again.
good luck.

[dniemyjski]

where exacly should i check? it cold up here in michigan and i don't have garage at the moment...

[blownup]

you might check the oil pressure sensor...when the oil pressure gets low it will shut the engine down, for safety....coil packs would be my second guess

[denisond3]

If the oil light comes on while the engine is running - it would mean there is something you needed to get fixed. If it only comes on when the motor has stalled - thats normal. The oil pressure drops to zero very soon after the engine stops; it doesnt even take a second.
Im sorry I cant help you much about where to look for damage to the engine wiring harness. I was able to do it in warm weather, and I had removed the motor (to replace the crankshaft seals); so I had the wiring harness totally out of the car. I would not have been able to fix that harness if it had been in the car. The melted sections would not have been reachable or easily visible.
Another thought:
Have you or the mechanics checked the fuel pressure? A blockage in the fuel filter or fuel lines causing low or fluctating fuel pressure could also cause your symptoms. There is a Schader valve on the fuel rail for this.
BUT you need to be able to check it while you are driving. That Schrader valve has the same threads as the hose fittings that are used for checking the pressure in the old R-12 air conditioning systems, and those hose fittings have the 'pin' for depressing the stem of the Schrader valve. (Its similar to the valve stem for putting air in the tires of the car). When I checked my fuel pressure, I used my R-12 manifold/gauge set, connecting the low pressure hose to that Schrader valve. I brought the hose out at the back of the hood, with the gauge lying on the windshield, held down by the wiper arm. The hood still closed. Then I drove along on a highway, able to put my foot well down on the gas pedal. The pressure stayed very close to 49 psi, as it was supposed to. If that pressure drops more than 20% it could mean you have a partially clogged fuel filter - blocked by ice crystals if its below freezing.
You could also try putting a can of 'dry gas' or a similar product into the fuel tank. That would let you know if you had a blockage due to ice in the fuel system.

I dont know if Neons shut the motor down when the oil pressure drops far enough for the light to come on. Some cars used to do that a few years ago; and now a lot of the the newer ones dont. Because if you lose oil pressure in the middle of the G.Washington Bridge or in the Holland tunnel; for safetys sake you want that motor to keep running till your family is in a safer spot.

[dniemyjski]

The Oil lite only comes on when the motor has stalled.
I guess another thing i should metion is that it's a DOHC. I just don't understand why it won't throw me a code

It also stalled out in the summer so i don't think its cold weather related.

Thanks for all the idea so far,

[ikeyballz]

i see..do you also have electrical problems like my car? flickering lights, weird idles, funny starts? maybe i should check out what denisond said also..


btw, our car hasnt done the stall out in a while.


maybe its evil dodge headman trying to shut off all of our neons at the same time! :ohnoes:

[dniemyjski]

Well, i solved the problem.........I sold the car! Now that i think about it though, maybe it was stupid for my to disconnect the battery in order to restart the car.....by doing so i eraced all that the computer had stored. Im not sure how car computers work, however i would think that a mechanic could pull up a file of when the last time the car stalled and fix the problem that way.

Good luck Neon owners,

P.S. I really did like the car

[ikeyballz]

haha roger man, i hear you..i like the little car a lot too, its fun. ;d

[neondoctor]

denisond3 posted this correct . I have been repairing neons for years and more than 90% of the engine problems (outside of the normal sensor repairs) have been related to the engine wire harness. This is not for the faint mind when repairing however you can fix your harness without spending the near $1000 price tag of a new one.

Remove the harness from the engine. Just take note that most of the connectors have a "red" secondary lock neeeding disabled before removing them!!!! Dont be shy here they (harness) are designed to be routed one way (part of the problem) and they will lay back in the right place to connect them later.

Once you have it on the table start by removing the "protective coverings" loom to be reused later. Pay attention to the area of the harness that connects to the rear of the motor(alt, o2 sensors, Crank sensor). You will find several wires either melted and exposed or in a bad state of repair. Take your time to replace the wires with the same size guage, quality wiring. Making your connections with a crimp and solider connection with heat shrink!!! Once all is replaced, replace the outer coverings of the harness as you removed them. One note here is to add an outer thermal loom (avail at auto part stores) to protect your repair from further damage. Be sure and keep the harness free from the exhaust and moving parts!

Reinstall the harness and be sure to reconnect all items and relock those red locks! This sounds like a real job but with about three hours and $30 you will be worry free with your baby!

Your local salvage yard harness will not be in any better shape but you can look if you wish!!!! This has solved all the weird stalling and no-start issues posted on this site for me in more than 20 cars I have repaired 95-99 models SOHC and DOHC models .

Good luck!

[denisond3]

Now I am looking for another wiring harness for our 97 Neon. The car will repeatedly 'hiccup' after its been running for a little while. Its not just a misfire, this is all 4 cylinders not firing, though very briefly. The codes tell me its misfiring, (which I know from the 'hiccuping', and that the PCM isnt getting a CPS signal when cranking).
Having looked at 9 Neons in salvage yards, eight of them were missing the wiring harness. Actually I looked at more than 9 Neons, but the ones with the engine missing naturally have the engine wiring harness missing too. So I got that one harness. It looks scabrous, but I plan to replace all the wires, and take my time to do it. I was thinking of going to one AWG size larger; such as #16 instead of #18. I will also be getting teflon coated wire, and making the splices in exactly the same places. I might use aircraft wire, as it has more strands of finer wire, (to stand vibration better), and each individual strand is separately tinned (to stand corrosin better).
I had tried measuring voltages on the existing wiring harness that was on the car. NOTHING seemed to be at the right voltage (with the ignition on but the engine stopped). Even the 'ground' wires were as much as 2 volts above true ground potential (the negative terminal of the battery).
If this fixes the problem on our Neon I will likely look for another 97-99 Neon to make the same repair on. I really like the Neons for a general around-town vehicle. Pretty good cars for crossing the USA with also - if they arent hiccuping!