Did we blow our engine? (Camry 2000)

[rikki-tikki-tavi]

Our lovely 2000 Toyota Camry (with 59,000 miles on it), which had hitherto not given us a single problem, broke down yesterday when we were driving to LA for the holidays.

We had driven about 115 miles when my husband noticed the Check Engine light come on; very soon afterward, we noticed that the heat indicator was way high, beyond the red zone even. We pulled off about a mile or so later at the exit and the car stalled; we managed to restart it right away and pull into a gas station a few feet away. Some smoke was coming out from under the hood at this point. The coolant reservoir was still pretty full, and it didn't seem that we were low on oil. We put some water into the radiator after things had cooled down a little, but most of the water came back out from under the car, from around the middle of the hood, toward the passenger side -- what we later learned was the location of the water pump.

We managed to get towed back home (yay AAA Plus!) and even found mechanics who were open on Christmas Eve to take a look at the car. They only had enough time today to figure out that it's at least the water pump that's busted. The problem is that the engine doesn't start, and they still haven't figured out why. It turns over and makes small click-clacky noises, but doesn't start.

I'm really worried that the engine is blown. I don't think we should have driven the extra minute or so that we did after finding that the heat indicator was off the charts . So: what's your best guess about whether this is a significantly more serious problem than the water pump? Did we blow the engine? (FWIW, I have actually blown an engine on my old Volvo, which had a perennial coolant leak; in that case, it sounded like the end of the world and parts of the engine actually fell off onto the road. What happened to us in the Camry didn't sound all that bad, just the engine stalling and the smoke at the very end.)

Is it true that newer cars (such as our Camry) have mechanisms that shut off the engine when it gets overheated? This would mean that the engine is not blown, right?

Thanks for any light you can shed on this! And happy holidays!

(By the way, it's a Camry LE, 4-cylinder.)

[2000izusu]

i doubt it is "blown" it is possible the oil could have thinned enough to spin a bearing but most likely unlikely. but you could be dealing with a new headgasket and a warped head do to letting get that hot. not the end of the world but alot more expensive than a water pump. good luck! mike

p.s. i am not aware of any function that will shut the motor down when it gets to hot (on a 4th generation) but i do know all sorts of warning lights and wistles go off.

[2000izusu]

i forgot to add: it is probably not starting do to the timing belt being off (jumping teeth) when the water pump took a dump. it is very possible to put a new water pump and timing belt on this rig and be good to go without major work (headgasket). you are just going to have to wait and see when you get the new t.b. and w.p. on! mike

[redgtxdi]

Ya, driving after red-hot is a no-no, but hindsight is most often 20/20, so don't beat yourself up over it now. Just remember for the future. (Been there, done that!)

Like Mike said, probably head gasket and possibly head warpage.......(head facing can typically be machined level again, or ***like in my case w/ my '89 Mazda pickup*** you can shop a good-used head and go from there.).......but either way, not the end of the world.

And that's pretty much a worst case scenario. (i.e. If you blew up the motor somehow, then something was reeeeeally wrong & nothing you could do to stop it anyway).

If your head is warped, what they'll do is dye check it (called magnaflux) sorta' like an angiogram for the metal which will show them if there are any cracks in it anywhere. If there aren't, then they'll just resurface & bolt it back on. If there are, then they can either weld it up *or*, like I said, you can check the local junkyards for a good/used head. (Junkyards will typically have already dye-checked those as well to make sure they're good to sell).

Whatever happened, it was premature & the cause is anybody's argument. If the mechanic can find definitive proof of something wrong by Toyota, you can go to battle w/ them. Otherwise, it'll just be one of those nifty little life-hiccups that we never expect but that always seem to happen. (I know, at least to me they do)

[rikki-tikki-tavi]

Thanks, that's good to know. I won't even mind if it's the headgasket -- I was really worried we might just have to junk the car!

The mechanics will let us know tomorrow what the deal is, and we'll have to take it from there. They seem like really, really nice guys, so at least I'm not worried that they'll try to make money off us.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by rikki-tikki-tavi

Thanks, that's good to know. I won't even mind if it's the headgasket -- I was really worried we might just have to junk the car!

The mechanics will let us know tomorrow what the deal is, and we'll have to take it from there. They seem like really, really nice guys, so at least I'm not worried that they'll try to make money off us.

ohh no, car is definately not junked with a blown head gasket and/or warped head. and that the worst I would expect.

also, being nice and not being 'greedy' are not the same thing, so be careful. wish you luck and hope yo found a mechanic you can trust, those seem hard to come by nowadays.

sorry it happened when it did with the holidays and stuff.

[Brian R.]

Niceness is not a personality trait, it is a behaviour choice.

[rikki-tikki-tavi]

The mechanic called us today, and said that the timing belt and water pump need to be replaced, and perhaps a couple of pulleys as well. He doesn't think, based on our description of what happened as well as from their inspection of the car, that there's any engine-related trouble. Of course, since they can't start the engine without replacing the timing belt, they don't know for sure that the engine/head/headgasket etc. are OK, but right now they have no reason to think that they're not.

They quoted us a price of $650 for parts and labor for the water pump and timing belt. Most of this appears to be the labor (~$500). Does this seem reasonable? It seemed on the higher end of reasonable to me, though certainly not a rip-off, but then again, everything in northern California seems expensive to me!

By the way, since this is apparently going to involve a lot of labor, is there anything else that they can replace while they're at it? The car doesn't have a lot of miles -- only 59K -- but most of it is city driving, so perhaps there are some things that might be worth replacing.

Thanks again for all your help. It feels good to be able to talk to the mechanic with at least some basic understanding of what might be going on in the car -- all of which I owe to you guys!

[2000izusu]

only thing i can think of are the crank and cam seals. but with only 59,000 miles they should not be leaking oil. they are accessed when the timing belt is done. 650$ is not unheard of for that type of work! some have gotten it for less and some have paid more. but you are not in a position to shop around! hope all is well when they button it back up! mike

p.s. post back when you get it back and let us know if the head gasket is alright!

[xfeejayx]

the price is exactly as you are thinking, on the high side of reasonable, but like 2000isuzu said, no position to shop.

more importantly, they can check for oil in the coolant and vice versa, which might tell you if the head gasket is shot or not. Mike and Brian know more details on the test you have to do for this, hopefully they chime in.

For starters, open up the coolant resevoir and see if there are small brown spots floating around in the coolant. It might be hard to see since your coolant is the original red Toyota stuff, right?

Can also drain the oil and look for foamy/milky oil, or spots or runs in the drained oil.

It'd be a real shame if they put everything back together then had to take it apart again to replace a gasket

[rikki-tikki-tavi]

Thanks, everyone, for all your help.

We got our car back yesterday. It looks like it was primarily a timing belt problem: they replaced the timing belt, pulleys, water pump and thermostat. They don't think anything related to the engine has been affected. My question is: if the car runs, and runs well, as it seems to be doing for the 10 or so miles we've driven it since getting it back, can we be safe in assuming that the engine is OK?

One thing that I hope is not relevant to the engine: the car makes a slightly gurgling sound -- it's as if we can hear the fluids circulating -- when we start it and also as we're driving along. What could this be? The noise is not significant, but it's not one that we've heard before. I'm hoping it's a relatively minor issue.

Thanks again for all your help.

[rikki-tikki-tavi]

Uh oh! I just read the water noise post below, and a couple of people mentioned the dreaded HEAD GASKET. Now I'm worried.

[Mike Gerber]

Originally Posted by rikki-tikki-tavi

Uh oh! I just read the water noise post below, and a couple of people mentioned the dreaded HEAD GASKET. Now I'm worried.

It's also possible that when the coolant was replaced due to the water pump replacement, that the shop did not properly bleed all the air out of the cooling system. I would take it back to the shop that did the work and let them know of the nosie.

Mike

[xfeejayx]

In theory the system should let the air out, that might be what the gurgling sound was. You've only driven a few miles so far, I'd give it a little more time since they had to completely replace the coolant after your water pump 'busted'. Just make sure you top off the coolant if its low. I have a feeling this one is just going to go away, but do take it in if it doesn't go away after a day or two.