why the hell'd you put a b16 into a GSR? dynos of B16a1 and B17a1 please

[94tegRS]

ok, I use to have a 94 teg with I/H/E and some other stuff but that was it for the go part. anyways. my friend just bought a 92 gsr with intake headers and exhaust. (and he thinks it is so great because it has a motor from japan) anyways, we got to talking about it cuz he needs a new transmision and i found out he has a b16 (a1 i think) supoposedly from a jdm del sol. well. he thinks it is the same horsepower and lighter so it is beter, but wouldnt the B17 have more torque? and does it get its peak horsepower earlier than the smaller engine. he has told me his car is unbelievably fast (his exact words!) and it is faster than mine was. I drove mine lots and I think i know how fast my speedometer went up. and I watched his when he showed it to me the first day. I Knoiw mine was a mch smoother ride and I am alson prewtty sure I'd beat him.

what car do you guys think would win and can you point me to sites that show a dyno of these engines so I can show him that it is dumb to buy a gsr with a civic engine.


also he thinks he can get rid of the car for a hi8gh dollar amount cuz alot of people want the 2g GSR's. but didnt the civic engine defeat that theory.

and I have always wanted another integra since the day i sold mine. I think now is the time.

I want a 3G RS/LS/orGS, dopesnt matter to mne. but with AEM CAI, DC 4-2-1, full exhaust, some type of performance ignition, and an overall tune-up so its running in tip-top shape. which car do you think would win. he is usually a better driver than me, when i bought mine, drove it for 3 hours, then let him drive, he was better than me. but him in his new integra he isnt that good, launches bad and soooooo much wheel hop when he shifts Id make up any loss i was suffewring during the race anyways.

the 3G will come out victorious right???

sorry for the long thread, once i start i just get carried away! :silly2:

[edman24]

you know i think that race would be pretty close. but just because he has more top end then you, by the time you both hit third he would pull on you and hard. yes i think the b17 did make more torque and is a great engine but just like anyother it wears out and must be replaced. a 2G gsr is in pretty high demand because theyre so rare and yes the different engine defeats the whole purpose.

[94tegRS]

yeah, when hes on it hard it does seem like it revs forever. i think on the tach the redline is 8 or something close to that. isnt the b16a1 only like 7000 or somethinig like that, cuz he takes it right to redline so i think he might be over-revvving the civc. after a while that alone will slow the car down a bit wont it.

and the whole reason this started is he trtied teling me someone had a 95 gs with IHE, MSD ignition, body kit, spoiler, lowered, 18's and told me other stuyff. it sounded REALLy nice and he said they would have traded across too. and i was like "and you said yes right?" and he said that he said no cuz his car was SO much faster.



but we have only raced up to about 110 before which in my integra was a bit into 4th, shift to 4th at like 93 i think. his car i guess is low geared so hed be deeper into 4th at that speed. so hed pull hard in 3rd and catch me and pass me probably(darn, i was hopingt nopt but oh well) and probably keep getting further ande further ahead in 4th.

do you think that B18B, I/H/E, lightened pullys, MSD(or other) ignition, and lightened flywheel could keep up with the civic powered GSR

[edman24]

well understand one thing. the ignition upgrade, no matter how expensive will not give you more than a few horsepower. getting a hotter spark wont do anything so thats not considered a money well spent mod unless youre doin major NA tuning or turbocharging. do i think with all that you would win? well first of all, if the car has 18's on it i say definitely no. those will slow you down quite a bit. if not and he has no mods on his b16 then i say you have a chance provided its not a long race and also that you are a good driver. i have two friends in the same position. one with a 90 teg RS with intake and headers. the other has a 99 Si with intake. at first my friend with the teg wooped on the Si because he had been driving for a year before my friend with the Si. but now my friend with the Si woops on him all day with mediocre driving. not even the best ive seen. now my friend with the teg has a NOS setup with a 55hp shot. even with that he has a hard time beating the Si. so you figure it out. id say it comes down mostly to the drivers

ive seen hyundais beat GS-R's. but the guy in the hyundai was practically a pro drag racer. go figure

[94tegRS]

well, i know his car is faster than my integra was because my mustang kept up with it until I hit 4grand in my integra then i said bye bye to the mustang. I raced him with my mustang (it is having tranny problems and is a bit older so im not suire if it is as fast as it use to be and it is auto so there shouldnt be a big difference between him and me driving it)

but we raced and the whole race I watched him lose me. id say by about 100 he had 5-6 cars on me, my integra only would have about 3-4 cars on the mustang.

but I found a wreckd civic im looking at for 600 bucks and it is mostl;y body damage where I would have been replacing anyways. cf hood, body kit, maybe Z3 fenders, but im thinking about S/C B16A1 or getting the B16B. will a SC kit for the B16A fit the B16B? arent they both practically the same besides head and pistons.

and is a B16B at al reliable? and I will probably take it to 8500 rpms many many times showing off, do 6you think ill get 150k miles off of it?

cuz i know some honda engines with 250k that run like new and burn no oil still.

[edman24]

with good maintenance the b16b will last very long. and about supercharging it, if you do, i hope i never meet you. supercharging the b16b is a total disgrace. that engine is a NA monster and a legend. do not supercharge it! anyway i think if you are going to beat the crap out of the engine then go for the b16a. much easier to replace if something goes wrong.

[94tegRS]

I know it is a nice engine, 185 hp out of 1.6 liters. but for me, 185 HP is not enough. and a jacvkson racing supercharger is supposed to not do anything when the engine isnt under vacuum. so if i was easy on it then I should get good gas mileage I think. If i wanted to stay all motor, then I would have to get cams and stuff which I am pretty sure wouldnt give me the best mileage.

ok, I pretty much want a civic that is my daily drivber, I want to be able to drive it like my grandma and get good gas mileage and I wanna be able o step on it and smoke most other cars around here. and the kid is now going to S/C his B16A GSR and I doubt a NA B16b with apexi VPAC, AEM CAI, DC 4-2-1, exhaust, MSD ignition(even if it dont help much) AEM tru power pullies, lightened flywhel, and a brand name chip(not a 20 dollar ebay one) can beat a B16A1 with I/H/E and a supercharger.

if so then id bre happy tp leave it NA, but I saw a dyno of the JRSC on a B16a and it had 190 at the wheels. B16b has 185 at the fly stock, so with everything pon it I might make what? 205 at the fly. so like 175 or something at the wheels. plus he has I/H/E so then he'll have like 200 at the wheels and whoop on me.

any sites with more specs on the B16b. I wanna know the torque and also what the ratios are in the transmission. the Ys12 he has , I guess he is at like 4 grand at 70. I dont want my engine revving that higfh when im cruising. my mustang is at 1500 ast 70 (auto)

[edman24]

damn youre not getting the point man. ok listen very carefully. the b16b no matter how mechanically similar to the b16a it might be is totally different. first of all there is no way you are running a supercharger on a b16b with stock pistons. you could not run enough boost to make that big of a difference. and if you did say goodbye to that engine very fast. now if you were going to supercharge or turbocharge and change the pistons and rods and stuff go with the b16a. save yourself the money. and i would not like to see a b16b go to waste like that. also this is a race proven fact i dont care what dynos say, place 2 cars on a drag strip with equal weight, equal hp and everything else being equal but one is turbo or s/c and the other is NA. the NA car will always win. something about NA horsepower is more potent. i dont know if its because it doesnt lag or what but its true. so even with your essentially stock b16b i think you could take the b16a supercharged. also the jackson racing supercharger bolt on kit does not add as much hp as promised in ads. the most ive seen on stock internals and just bolted on is maybe 30hp. thats puts him right where you are with a b16b but yours is NA. and if he does beat you, SO WHAT? you got a freakin civic type r engine for christs sake!! how many of your buddies or anyone you know can say that????? NONE!!! and you keep talkin about daily driver and the engine lasting 200k miles. any engine with forced induction will not last long. its not possible mechanically. and you talk about gas mileage? my dads v8 truck gets better gas mileage then my 4 cylinder VW at times. you know why? its the drivers habits. redline it all the time and you waste gas even with stock engines. forced induction will only make that worse. and no NA does not give worse gas mileage then forced induction.


all in all it sounds like you are only in it for power. if you are doing that go with a crvtec or b16a/b18 with forced induction and save a b16b for someone who understands the prestige and responsibility of owning one. there are certain things that separate it from other bseries engines also. like moly impregnation. thats a treatment done to the meatl which makes a smoother surface, allows greater heat dissipation, and increases the strength of that block no other bseries engines have that. just an interesting fact.

[94tegRS]

ok, well, I know it shouldnt bother me much that his car will be faster but it does. ever since weve had opur licenses his cars are always faster. supra, probe GT, taurus SHO. I just waa finally be able to beat him. but I am thinking of geting the B16b and leaving it NA and just doing a few bolt on's but I gotta find out where to get them for this engine.

[edman24]

finally youre understanding my son. jk. anyway so the b16b is such an awesome engine. sometimes faster doesnt necessarily mean better. i mean if you take your cars to a show or a hangout everyone will be around your car because his is just another b16a swap. you would have a very rare and sought after engine. thats so tight that you can do that man. i would do it in a heartbeat. and i still think you could smoke him. it would be a very good race. get some practice in on your starts and smoke him!!! i mean i would rather have a b16b than a b18c turbocharged but thats my opinion. its not faster but will earn me a lot more respect from the auto community. good luck and hope you make the right choice. by the way a b16b would rip through an autocross course like a beast!! do it!!!

[94tegRS]

yes, it would be cool to say that but trouble is, around here not too many people would know the difference.

what kind of mileage do you think ill get when i drive it like a normal person?

[sparq]

Originally posted by edman24
the b16b no matter how mechanically similar to the b16a it might be is totally different. first of all there is no way you are running a supercharger on a b16b with stock pistons.

Gee you sure about that, the Civic Type R pistons are even stronger then the B16a's - maybe you were thinking in reverse?

you could not run enough boost to make that big of a difference.

Lets see, B16a = 170hp ... B16b = 210hp - how will that not make any differance?

[edman24]

sparq heard of a little thing called compression? with stock type r pistons your compression would be about 12:1. running boost on that high compression would spell disaster for that engine. i know they are stronger but thats not the point. and what was that about the boost thing i said? what i was trying to say was that if you kept the stock pistons WITH boost you could only run about 5 psi safely and not detonate your engine. this isnt enough boost to justify the amount of money it would cost to put a supercharger on the car. you would get very little hp. thats what i was saying.

anything else you want to question sparq??

[sparq]

Hahaha... get your facts right buddy.

Civic Type R motor runs 10.8:1 compression - regular B16 is 10.4:1

Go back to playing with your legos now

[edman24]

haha thats funny buddy:finger:
but go ahead tell people to run a turbo on stock pistons because they are STRONGER. youre dumb if you think because pistons are stronger then you can run higher boost on them. think, stronger doesnt mean no detonation. if you know what that is.......
and even if it is 10.8:1 its still too high to run boost. get your facts straight.