dodge viper- an embarassment to the name "sports car"

[integra818]

In my opinion, the viper should'nt even be called a sports car. I saw a documentary on t.v about the dodge viper, and I was suprised at how that car is built, from what I've heard, it's a dodge ram engine blueprint, just re-designed with 2 extra cylenders and it's built with a mostly fiberglass body. Fiberglass body, an it's still that heavy. I don't wanna mention hp per liter, people are tired of hearin that $hit, you already know what kind of hp per liter the viper has.
Back to my main subject, the viper shouldnt be called a sports car because, well, porsches are faster, and so are ferrari's. And don't tell me that vipers cost less, I already know that and that doesnt matter, price aside. The reason I don't like the viper is because of the terrible handling. Handleing is a sports-car trait which the viper lacks. And how much R&D is behind the vipers engine? Not as much as a porsche, that's for sure.

[Chris V]

Ahh, the clueless strike again.

1) hp/liter is important in racing classes that limnit displacement, and in countries where displacement is taxed heavily. Other than that, it's poor engineering. It means nothing. If hp/liter were so important, then why can't Honda get 300+ hp from the stock N/A 1.8 liter in the ITR? That would match the hp/liter they get in theri 600 cc street bikes....

Fact is, as engines get larger, their specific output goes down, but TOTAL output goes up at the same state of tune. That's whay the Viper puts out more torque at IDLE than an NSX does at peak...

2) the Viper's engine is, truly, built from the old LA series V8s, and was originally just a showcase body for the engine before it becasme avaialble in cast iron form in the truck lines. But it hearkens back to the old days of the Cad Allard and Cobra, and people around the world wanted it. So it went into production.

It's smaller and lighter than an F360... Physically it's no bigger than an old 240Z with fender flares (in fact, it's SHORTER than a 240Z!) Pysically, the engine is shorter than a Supra's inline 6 engine. And the Viper is shorter, lower, and lighter than said Supra. It
s quite a bit lighter than a Ferrari 575M or Aston Martin, or Jag XK8. It's much different in weight than a 911 Turbo.

As far as speed? Where do you get off saying it can't be a sports car because its not as fast as a 911 turbo? Jesus christ, MOST sports cars throughout the decades have not been very fast. it's certainly faster than my Fiat 124 Spyder, MGB, or RX7, all of which are sports cars! It's certainly faster than my old 911S, and THAT was a sports car! You simply HAVE no clue!

And handling? Have you yet to drive one on the track? One theng the VIpers are KNOWN for is handling. Thay's won national championships in slalom racing and road racing! Not just in top series like LeMans, either.

God, you sound like a typical ignorant kid. Get your head out of playstation and rice boy magazines and join the real world!

[Polygon]

Originally posted by integra818
In my opinion, the viper should'nt even be called a sports car. I saw a documentary on t.v about the dodge viper, and I was suprised at how that car is built, from what I've heard, it's a dodge ram engine blueprint, just re-designed with 2 extra cylenders.

No, it is designed off of an older engine, not a design out of the Ram. All I can tell you is, no duh, what do you expect? It is a pushrod design, that is OLD technology. The Viper engine is by no means designed off of an old truck engine. Let me guess an Integra is a sports car?

Originally posted by integra818
It's built with a mostly fiberglass body. Fiberglass body, an it's still that heavy.

It is lighter than a lot of other sports cars, and must I stress that most of the weight comes from the large engine and the trasmission. Also, the Vette is also made of fiberglass, and so are a lot of cars used in racing.

Originally posted by integra818
I don't wanna mention hp per liter, people are tired of hearin that $hit, you already know what kind of hp per liter the viper has.

I am so sick and tired of hearing that term, it is meaningless. Tell me what that proves. I don't see Honda making V8s with 100HP per liter. I don't care about this as it has no meaning. If it did, you can eat it because the Hemi has the most power per liter of any engine built, and that would be over 500HP per liter, so sod off.

Originally posted by integra818
Back to my main subject, the viper shouldnt be called a sports car because, well, porsches are faster, and so are ferrari's. And don't tell me that vipers cost less, I already know that and that doesnt matter, price aside. The reason I don't like the viper is because of the terrible handling. Handleing is a sports-car trait which the viper lacks. And how much R&D is behind the vipers engine? Not as much as a porsche, that's for sure.

Let me tell you something, a Viper cost a boatload less than a Ferrari or Porsche. Dodge could make the Viper as refined as those but then it would have to jack up the price even more that it already is. As for handling, no it isn't a grocery getter. It is a track car and the handling is less forgiving. Sorry you have to actually be a good driver to to handle one. I guess Dodge doesn't want idiots just going and wrapping their new Viper around a tree.

You are clueless my friend. Do some more research before you go mocking a car that dominated LeMans in all the classes, and one that still dmoinates GT races. Don't base your, so called, knowlege off of what you read in Motor Trend or hear from people on the street, get some real knowlege.

[custmguru]

obviously all of the viper fans and BUYERS disagree with you.

[SuPeRcAr_MaN]

This thread was an absolute waste of space. I didn't even bother reading every post, because when I saw Polygon's name, I knew he would point out how stupid someone was for posting this. The Viper is and will continue to be one of the great American sports cars.

[integra818]

Originally posted by Chris V
VIpers are KNOWN for is handling. Thay's won national championships in slalom racing and road racing!

viper gts slalom :63.6
civic si slalom : 64.6

And don't get mad at me for showing that the civic does a better slalom then a viper, I know the civic is lighter, and has a smaller engine but it shows that if "vipers are known for handleing", why arent civics???

[integra818]

Originally posted by Polygon


Let me tell you something, a Viper cost a boatload less than a Ferrari or Porsche. Dodge could make the Viper as refined as those but then it would have to jack up the price even more that it already is. As for handling, no it isn't a grocery getter. It is a track car and the handling is less forgiving. Sorry you have to actually be a good driver to to handle one. I guess Dodge doesn't want idiots just going and wrapping their new Viper around a tree.

You are clueless my friend. Do some more research before you go mocking a car that dominated LeMans in all the classes, and one that still dmoinates GT races. Don't base your, so called, knowlege off of what you read in Motor Trend or hear from people on the street, get some real knowlege.

Track car, have you been to the open track days at some road coarses, the viper gets out-handled by almost every car there, some are stock, some arent, the only reasopn the viper gets ahead of all of them is because it outpowers all the other cars, but handleing isnt really that great on a track (talkin about the stock gts model)

I know the integra isnt a sports car, I never said it is, It's just I car I like.

The viper might have won lemans but it wasnt a stock viper, and by the way, ever heard of jgtc? in the gt500 class of that series, there is a 500 hp limit, every engine has the same power, it's all down to who's car can handle better and has a better balance, the supras and skylines dominate that class.


I realize hp per liter doesnt matter, and I dont know why people keep using the term, that's why I didnt mention the hp per liter of the viper, because it means nothing.

Some of the things I mentioned were based on stuff I saw on tv, but alot of it, I have seen on a racetrack, I go to roadraces once every month with my dad, and the vipers are not that much faster than the other cars. some of the other cars include, turbo rx-7s, 300zx's, and 1 honda.

[BLU CIVIC]

GOT ONE QUESTION....WHY DOES THE ITR ALWAYS COME UP IN DISCUSSIONS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT??

[Polygon]

Originally posted by integra818


Track car, have you been to the open track days at some road coarses, the viper gets out-handled by almost every car there, some are stock, some arent, the only reasopn the viper gets ahead of all of them is because it outpowers all the other cars, but handleing isnt really that great on a track (talkin about the stock gts model)

Then they mus be driven by people that don't know how to drive. Trust me, we have Viper owners here that would live to show you a thing or two about Viper handeling.

Originally posted by SuPeRcAr_MaN
This thread was an absolute waste of space. I didn't even bother reading every post, because when I saw Polygon's name, I knew he would point out how stupid someone was for posting this. The Viper is and will continue to be one of the great American sports cars.

Wow, well thanks for the back-up man.

[Chris V]

Originally posted by integra818



viper gts slalom :63.6
civic si slalom : 64.6

And don't get mad at me for showing that the civic does a better slalom then a viper, I know the civic is lighter, and has a smaller engine but it shows that if "vipers are known for handleing", why arent civics???

Dude, if you knew ANYthing about slalom, yoou'd know why your post is meaningless. I've been racing SCCA autocoross for 2 decades, and been an SCCA an BSCC driving instructor (and am now going to be the novice instructor for the Appalachian Region SCCA). I know about slalom and handling. I owned a CRX si, and raced it, as well as the aforementioned traditional sports cars.

A narrow car goes through the slalom faster because it doesn't have to move as far side to side, so to it, the slalom is much straighter. Doesn't mean it actually handles better.

OTOH, why is it that in SCCA slalom racing, a stock class Viper will go through the course faster than the Civic Si? Think about it.

Damn magazine racer.

BTW, CIvic Si's and ITRs ARE known for their handling. At least up to the current gen Civic Si.

[Polygon]

I have to appluade you Chris, that was excellent.

Also, I should say that I actually agree that the Viper isn't a sports car, it is an exotic supercar.

[integra818]

Originally posted by Chris V



A narrow car goes through the slalom faster because it doesn't have to move as far side to side, so to it, the slalom is much straighter. Doesn't mean it actually handles better.

Nsx width 1810mm , slalom :65.8 mph
viper width 1923 mm , slalom : 63.6 mph

Are you telling me the nsx goes through the slalom faster becasue it's 113 mm narrower than the viper, by the way, I do realize the nsx is rear engine, no need to mention that.

[integra818]

Originally posted by SuPeRcAr_MaN
This thread was an absolute waste of space. I didn't even bother reading every post, because when I saw Polygon's name, I knew he would point out how stupid someone was for posting this. The Viper is and will continue to be one of the great American sports cars.

If it's a total waste of space, then why did you even bother to lookin into it? Stupid for posting this? I'M just wonderin how much of a loser someone would be to look into a thread they think is useless.

[integra818]

Originally posted by Chris V
lighter than an F360...

Viper gts : 3360 lbs
Ferrari 360 : 3064 lbs

[integra818]

Polygon, you mentioned that you don't see honda maiking v8's with 100 hp per liter, well, Hoda's v8's in indy is 2.65 liters, and it has 780 hp, that's294 hp per liter. Honda HAS made more than 100 hp per liter on v8's. And on top of all that, the engine revs up to 13,000