1999 Tahoe

[kaskillah]

I have a 99 Tahoe and the "service engine light" came on. I have the factory service manuals (4 books in the set each about the size of an LA phone book) for this SUV but it looks like you have to be a scientist to use them. According to the manuals you need a scan tool to pull up the DTC's so it will tell me what the reason for the check engine light coming on. I don't have one of these tools and I don't feel like shelling out the bucks to buy one nor do I want to take it to the numbskulls at the local dealership. The SUV runs fine but the light is annoying. How do you cancel the light other than pulling out the bulb? Disconnecting the battery did nothing.:shocked

[cobra1]

if the light comes on and stays on after 3 or more driving cycles then it is a continuous malfunction of an emisions related component. it could be minor, or major depending on the component and its function. should it be anything that causes the engine to run rich, your looking at heavy carbon deposits, as well as potential damage to the catalytic converter should raw gas be making its way to the converter. this causes extreme temps in the cat and leads to a meltdown of the catalyst, which can lead to a plugged cat, not good. theres also the decreased fuel economy thing as well.

on the other hand should it be running lean, this causes excesive heat in the engine, particularly on the intake valves, and prolonged driving can/will burn the intake valves.

ive read that Autozone offers hooking up a scan tool free of charge, maybe that in conjunction with your factory service manuals will lead ya in the right direction.

there are also some code readers as low as $140

http://www.levineautoparts.com/eqobdiicodre.html

[Shortbus]

Originally posted by kaskillah
nor do I want to take it to the numbskulls at the local dealership. The SUV runs fine but the light is annoying.

I'm not trying to sound harsh here, but those numbskulls at the dealership are highly trained proffesionals, were not talking about mcdonalds burger flippers. We are required to shell out money from our own pocket for tools, training and ASE certifications which there are hundreds of area's of expertise. Those manuals that you have that would take a rocket scientist to figure out are for trained techs only. Give them a chance to help you, driving around with your SES light on will only create more problems in the long run. You would really be cussing if your vehicle breaks down in the middle of no-where, and all because you were to proud to take it in and have it fixed. Dealerships are business just like anyone else, we provide a service at prices determined by Mitchell Time labor guides and do not pull the prices out of thin air for the services we perform.

As far as rendering the light inoperative that is not fixing your problem. PM me if you have any other questions I will do my best to help you out.

[cobra1]

Originally posted by jgillham


I'm not trying to sound harsh here, but those numbskulls at the dealership are highly trained proffesionals, were not talking about mcdonalds burger flippers. We are required to shell out money from our own pocket for tools, training and ASE certifications which there are hundreds of area's of expertise. Those manuals that you have that would take a rocket scientist to figure out are for trained techs only. Give them a chance to help you, driving around with your SES light on will only create more problems in the long run. You would really be cussing if your vehicle breaks down in the middle of no-where, and all because you were to proud to take it in and have it fixed. Dealerships are business just like anyone else, we provide a service at prices determined by Mitchell Time labor guides and do not pull the prices out of thin air for the services we perform.

As far as rendering the light inoperative that is not fixing your problem. PM me if you have any other questions I will do my best to help you out.

i agree with most of what you said, gone are the grease monkey days, however there are exceptions to every rule. I watched once as a tech at a GM dealership worked on my parents 88 Chevy Corsica. It was towed in because it would not run. I watched as he replaced parts, 3 of them, the EGR valve, mass air flow sensor, and finally the computer. The first two parts had no effect on the cars condition, and the computer turned out to be the problem. However the egr valve, and mass air flow sensor that was taken off were not put back on. It was a warranty repair so i didnt make an issue of it. But how many times can we figure that this happens to people out of warranty? Most people are clueless as to what part is what, and what the function of said part is. The sad part is that most people that take their car in nowadays are at the mercy of whom ever they take it too. You could tell 75% or more of those people that their gasoline ion booster needed replaced, and they'd believe ya. So it's no wonder that many people do feel preyed upon when it comes to car repair.

as for prices, the shops have to ability to set their own hourly labor rates, there is no mandate on this, and $60 an hour or more is slightly rediculous. The time guide, however i'd say is a good measure. Part mark up is even another story. I have a 95 Chevy S-10 2wd with 175,000 miles. Upon my pre-inspection look over, i noticed the idler arm and centerlink had some play in it. So i set about pricing the idler arm, centerlink, and inner and outer tierod ends. I went to the GMC dealership close to where i live first, thinking they shouldn't be too bad on these simple parts. Boy did i get the shock of my life, they wanted $119.58 just for the idler arm. I told him that was ok and didn't bother him with the rest of it. I drove on to Autozone, it was $17.99 (Perfect Circle made in USA), AdvanceAuto was $15.73 (TRW, made in USA) Now there is no reason on God's green earth for the difference to be so great. I do however buy all brake replacement pads at a GM dealership. I bought one set at a Napa store one time and even with the dust shields they still turned my wheels black and squeaked like hell even on new rotors.

dont take anthing personal, im sure most techs earn their wage, and who you work for certainly earns more than you do. just remember that there are jacklegs in every profession and that everyone is bound to run into one somewhere. however the original poster really needs to have his Tahoe looked at, and for that, God help him.

[Shortbus]

It was towed in because it would not run. I watched as he replaced parts, 3 of them, the EGR valve, mass air flow sensor, and finally the computer. The first two parts had no effect on the cars condition, and the computer turned out to be the problem. However the egr valve, and mass air flow sensor that was taken off were not put back on. It was a warranty repair so i didnt make an issue of it. But how many times can we figure that this happens to people out of warranty? Most people are clueless as to what part is what, and what the function of said part is. The sad part is that most people that take their car in nowadays are at the mercy of whom ever they take it too. You could tell 75% or more of those people that their gasoline ion booster needed replaced, and they'd believe ya. So it's no wonder that many people do feel preyed upon when it comes to car repair.

and I agree with most of what you said, there are some bad apples out there and people certainly have the right to a second opinion, same as going to a doctor you should always get a second opinion. I think if people would take a more active role in their auto, such as asking for their old parts back, or talking with the shop foreman and taking some time to learn a little about the machine they are driving, they would be less fearful and opinionated about any repair facility not just factory shops. So many people just drop their car off and say "fix it" and they don't get involved so when they get their bill they don't understand where their money went, so they leave with a bad impression. Technology is costly to work on these days and their is a lack of people who can do it and do it well. I hope kaskillah gets his 38,000 dollar vehicle fixed, after as much as you pay to buy a vehicle these days what is 4 or 5 hundred bucks anyway?

Thank you for your post cobra1.

I hope we get some more people to start posting in here.
:flash:

[cobra1]

Originally posted by jgillham


I hope we get some more people to start posting in here.
:flash:

yeah....sure would be nice

[kaskillah]

I thank all of you guys for your replies and support! Cobra1 I take it that you are a professional in the automotive repair field and would want to defend your "brothers". I firmly believe that the dealers are only interested in taking your money without any regard to customer satisfaction, at least the dealerships in my area. I do have a local indepedent who I take my cars to when I am unable to solve the problems myself or if the job is too involved. He was able to diagnose the problem with the appropriate scan tool, which by the way he told me cost about $6000. He nailed down the problem in about 15 minutes and by the code he supplied me with, I was able to repair the problem. It was a very insignificant item realting to a leak in the evap control system in the fuel system.
In regards to your reply, John, when you pay 38000 plus for a vehicle, you certainly expect it to operate reliably. I personally will never buy another vehicle that I can't work on again. It's just not worth it. I will certainly be looking to repace this Tahoe in the future with a pre-1970's Suburban. Who cares if I'll pay for it at the gas pump. I doubt that I'll ever sink the difference in cost, between a new vehicle and a used one, in gas money. And of course I will be able to work on the brute and the parts will be affordable if and when I'll need them.
I'm glad that I hung on to my '77 GMC Sierra Grande 4X4 with 300,000 plus miles on it. It helps me out when the newer cars break down. Even with the electronic ignition, it's easy to work on with the most basic of tools. 13 MPG, so what! Years back when I bought it new for $5700, I didn't care if it would ever need work, I knew that I could do it. It has only needed minor things such as a new alternator, power steering pump, water pump and a carb rebuild or two. That's it! None of these items ever cost me more than $50. Tranny and engine are still doing fine. It's never let me down. New cars....never again! Those of you who think the Japanese imports are the way to are to go are totally brainwashed. I've tried them, they're way over rated. They're just as bad if not worse. I'm not going there. There's more misery than i have time to waste on. Maybe I'll submit it in another forum.
THANKS COBRA1 AND JOHN!

[bowtiebandit]

Im just going to toss my two cents in on this since I am a Shop Foreman at a Chevrolet Dealer. There are several avenues you can take when going to a dealer. First find out what their CSI scores are..these are our report cards from GM. Anything below a 2.5 and I'd be looking for another dealer, it's a complicated system but we are graded on a 4.0 scale. I myself have carried a 4.0 for 6 months and a 100 percent fixed right the first time for the same amount of time and our overall score is a 3.2 I believe. You can also request individual techs, at least at our store, and request his training record and certifications. If you are fought on this again I would look elsewhere.
If you are intersted in finding someone you can trust I can see if I can find someone in your area for you. As stated there are definitely elite's in every field and most of us strive for that. We have whats called World Class Technicians as graded by our instructors and the classes we attend.

[cobra1]

Originally posted by kaskillah
I thank all of you guys for your replies and support! Cobra1 I take it that you are a professional in the automotive repair field and would want to defend your "brothers". I firmly believe that the dealers are only interested in taking your money without any regard to customer satisfaction, at least the dealerships in my area. THANKS COBRA1 AND JOHN!

ummmm..... i think you have me confused with someone else, im the one that stated that there are those few individuals in the dealerships that have no clue what their doing. i certainly didnt defend anyone.

in fact im the one who merely suggested that driving with your light on (depending on the cause) could be very costly, and suggested a way for you to cheaply diagnose it yourself. i myself am very reluctant to take mine back to the dealer for anything non-warranty, or very minor even if in warranty. ive always felt that the less people who poke around under the hood the better, and beyond that, i cant stand to pay someone to do something i can do myself. to do so is called being lazy.

its been my experience that a basic understanding of what part does what, along with an inexpensive scan tool and repair manual, goes along way in determining what the problem is. As cars get older, the availability of parts from sources other than the dealers is greater, and thus cheaper. therefore even if ya hit and miss a couple times you still wont have spent as much as ya would had ya taken it to a dealer.

[cobra1]

Originally posted by bowtiebandit
Im just going to toss my two cents in on this since I am a Shop Foreman at a Chevrolet Dealer. There are several avenues you can take when going to a dealer. First find out what their CSI scores are..these are our report cards from GM. Anything below a 2.5 and I'd be looking for another dealer, it's a complicated system but we are graded on a 4.0 scale. I myself have carried a 4.0 for 6 months and a 100 percent fixed right the first time for the same amount of time and our overall score is a 3.2 I believe. You can also request individual techs, at least at our store, and request his training record and certifications. If you are fought on this again I would look elsewhere.
If you are intersted in finding someone you can trust I can see if I can find someone in your area for you. As stated there are definitely elite's in every field and most of us strive for that. We have whats called World Class Technicians as graded by our instructors and the classes we attend.

good info, and something that people should remember when they have to visit a dealer for repair.

[kaskillah]

All is well now. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm in the Portland Oregon metro area.

[jcooley]

I was having the same problem with the engine light as well. I took it in and they told me that everything was fine. They went and turned the gas cap until it clicked about 7-8 times. The light went off, and when I get gas now, I turn it until it clicks several times. I haven't had a problem since. Try this before taking it in.

[kaskillah]

Thanks for the suggestion JCooley, I'll keep that in mind if I get the warning light on again. The problem I had was actually something else. It was in the evap system. I took it all apart an cleaned it. The light hasn't come back on since.

[Flatrater]

Some people need to get a clue! Cars and trucks can be a pain to figure out what is wrong! If you look in your shop manuals you can see what we have to deal with. Some times the only way to figure out what is wrong is to try a known good part, but I always would remove the parts that didn't fix it GM warranty does not pay for more than one part per repair. As for labor rates they are controlled by GM the dealers have little control over the labor rate.

Some of the trouble trees in the manuals may be only a couple of steps but others may be 4 pages long. Just so you know under warranty we are given 18 minutes of pay to find your problem. Can you do it in 18 minutes?

Bowtie is a good friend of mine and I also stand behind what he posted.

Just remember we are all not bad apples just watch who you let fix your truck!

[kaskillah]

I absolutely understand that cars are a pain to figure out. I am getting more and more fed up with the so called high technology that's in new cars today. It's a shame that you guys are given so little time to figure things out. You can't rush quality work. With all the bad experiences I have had with the service department of dealerships, I just don't trust any of them. I have lived in a couple different states and in many different cities. Every dealer service department that I had been to has tried to screw me over in one way or another. Be it inflated labor times, repalcement of unneccessary parts, coming up with a phantom problem or just not fixing the problem. I WILL NOT EVER TAKE ANY CAR TO THE DEALER. I'm to the point that I will never ever buy another new car again. I'm even thinking about cleaning out my garage of any car that I have that is newer than 20 years old. I can easily work on the older cars. I had experience as a mechanic 20 years ago. I don't mind working on cars myself. New cars, forget it!