SUV or glorified Minivan?

[Neutrino]

Well the SUV fashion is at its peak. But only less and less of them can go off-road. So which cars do you consider true SUV's or which SAV(sport activity vehicles) aka glorified minivans.

The only true off-roaders left that i can think of:



Jeep Grand Cheroke and Wrangler
Range Rover and old model Defender(have not heard anything yet about the new one)
Mercedes Gelandewagen
Humvee H1

Those are the only ones i can think of now.If you have any additions please post. Also if you disagree please do NOT flame but explain your oppinion.Also when i say off-road i am not talking about dirt roads I'm talking about climbing Moab Style.

[del]

i would add to that list the toyota land cruiser.

[S Brake]

SUV:
H2
Cayenne
Montero
Xterra

SAV:
X5
MDX
M-Class
CRV
Santa Fe
Highlander, and the list goes on

[Moppie]

The Nissan Pathfinder is also a true offroader. (Xterra in the US)
Rover Freelander is also quite good offroad.
Susuki Vitara is a diffinitly a true off roader.

[Deakins]

Originally posted by snowboarder
SUV:
Cayenne

I have large feet, so I don't need a Porsche.
Touareg for me.

[Polygon]

I completely agree with Neutrino, and the H2 is nothing more than a Suburban.

[Jimster]

SUV:
Cayenne
Hummer H1
Land Rover Discovery
Range Rover
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Jeep Wrangler
Land Rover Freelander (Even though it is the worst car on sale IMHO)
Mitsubishi Pajero/Shogun/Montero
Toyota Landcruiser
Suzuki Vitara
Suzuki Jimny
VW Touareg
Ford Explorer
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado- *EDIT* I meant this- not highlander- sorry
Nissan Patrol
Nissan XTerra
Mercedes Gelandnewagen
Ford Expedition



SAVs
BMW X5
Mercedes M Class
Cadillac Escalade
Lincoln Navigator
Dodge Durango
Hummer H2
Chevrolet Suburban
Chevrolet Trail Blazer
Pontiac Aztec
Honda CRV
Hyundai Santa Fe
Renault Scenic RX4
Daihatsu Terios
Mitsubishi Challenger
Toyota RAV4

[Landbarger]

I thought the point was to list which ones could go rock hopping, not as many as you could think of. Sadly, 2003 Expeditions are a little dainty , but in that case so are most of those other ones!

[zackiedawg]

OK...sorry to dredge up a thread from so long ago...but there were no other discussions currently, and I noticed alot of stuff on this thread which sounded a little incorrect on off-road capabilities of some of these SUVs today.

Jimster listed a bunch of SUVs in the off-road capable list which aren't, so now that some new true SUVs have debuted, the list must be refined!

Here was the list:

Hummer H1 - no question...this is the most off road capable vehicle in the World. The civilian version is not quite as specced as the military version, but can be aftermarketed to keep up.

Land Rover Discovery - A decent off roader, especially in Euro trim with the diesel engine not available in the US. It is lacking some good off road features from its bigger brother Defender, such as the locking center and rear diffs, snorkel intake, sealed doors, and disconnectable sway bars on the US version.

Range Rover - Very capable, and very comfortable. It can still go where few owners will ever consider taking it...but is softening ever so much as it ages, trying to play into the richer crowd who doesn't care about creeper gear low range, disconnecting sways, locking diffs, and breakover angles.

Jeep Grand Cherokee - Can be made to be very capable...has a few shortcomings over its heavy duty cousins, such as the soft lower unibody kick panels which dent easily over heavy rock crawling, and usually are not equipped with locking rear diffs and proper tires...though they can be.

Jeep Wrangler - Massively capable because of its many aftermarket options, super durable sparing body and frame, great suspension travel, solid 4WD system, and short wheelbase. Probably mor eversatile overall than even the Hummer H1 because it can fit between boulders and trees that the Hummer would have to knock down, and has tremendous breakover height due to the very short wheelbase.

Land Rover Freelander - Not an offroader by any measure. No skidplates, terrible suspension travel limitations, no proper crawler gear, no locking diffs, and cannot tread deep water.

Mitsubishi Pajero/Shogun/Montero - The older they are, the mor ecapable they were. The newer ones are still very capable in most scenarios, but are handicapped by insufficient wheel travel in the suspension and no rear locking diff option (the older ones had center and rear lockers and a great low range...plus a super heavy duty body-on-frame design and a 4-bolt main engine with good torque...the newer ones are getting too soft for the rck climbing).

Toyota Landcruiser - Like the Montero, the older ones were better, but the new ones can still handle themselves well. The stripped down, lighter, diesel engined models sold throughout Asia, Africa, and the Middle East are much better for off roading than the bloated, heavy, soft American versions.

Suzuki Vitara - Light duty only. You can rock hop a little because they are short, but the low range stinks, engine braking downhill will scare the life out of you, and there is no lockable differential for the deep mud. They det easily, and suspension peices break quite easily when the body is twisted over uneven terrain.

Suzuki Jimny - Too brittle for real stuff without alot of aftermarket help.

VW Touraeg (Touareg) - Incredible debut from VW to make a vehicle imminently capable in keeping up with Range Rover in luxury, BMW in roadability, and Defender in off-road ability. With 25" fording depths stock, 13.5 inches of ground clearance at the diffs, electronic adjustable air suspension, disconnectable sways, locking center and rear differentials, hill holder, low creeper gear, water-sealed doors, exhaust valve to prevent water intrusion, triple skid plates, and great approach, departure and breakover angles. A true off road monster.

Porsche Cayenne - Everything the Touareg is...except a little less off road and a little more on road (even the off road equipped model has slightly less approach and departure angles due to the lower ride height and longer nose). Otherwise, it is engineered the same.

Ford Explorer - NOT. Sorry, but this is not an off road vehicle without tons of help from aftermarket suppliers, who would have to replace just about everything under the truck just to have a good off roader that wouldn't even be excellent. Waste of time and money trying to make one of these capable off road. True off roaders call these "yuppie chicanes" since they often have to find a way around them on trails, as they sit buried up to their axles and waiting for a tow.

Toyota Highlander - About as capable off road as a Focus.

Nissan Patrol - Can be made into very strong, durable off roaders. Mor eknown for their strength and buildability...they do not come equipped with a bunch of factory offroad support, but have such a durable body that they can easily be added onto.

Nissan XTerra - Medium duty beach runner and light trail runner. Not a rock hopper. Horrible suspension travel, so boulder climbing is right out. High center of gravity makes crossover grades an impossibility. No locking diffs means no mud, no heavy snow, no ice. Still, it is at least an old style body-on-frame, and has durable utilitarian pickup truck guts...so it shouldn't break even if you do get it stuck or run aground (though the optional "nerf" bars on the sides are a bad idea, since they often get pushed up into the body of the truck when they high center on breakovers, and do serious body damage!).

Mercedes Glandenwagen (Gelandewagen) - A beast. As capable as the Hummer, Range Rover, older Land Cruiser, and Touareg...even better than them since the thing is built like a tank, and is virtually bulletproof. It is so heavy, and the panels are so thick, that it can crush or knock down what it can't drive around without damage. Can be equipped to military specs of off-road capability with snorkel systems, 3 locking diffs, skid plates everywhere, etc etc etc. Excellent off roader whose only disadvantage is its extreme weight and bulk...the weight can sometimes cause it to sink down in thick sand or mud where others may be able to not sink as far, and the top heavy design limits the cross grade angle a bit.

Ford Expedition - It won't break...but it won't get through either. Again, with a bunch of aftermarket help, it can be an OK off roader. But rock hopping, trail busting, deep sand, heavy mud, steep approaches and departures, and breakovers are completely out of the question. The only reason this truck should be purchased is for construction and utility people who need room for 4 or 5 people, occasionally tow or go through rough trails or unfinished lots, but still want something they can wash and take a client in. Not an off roader by any stretch.

Hummer H2 - Slightly better than the Expedition due to the heavier 2500 GMC Suburban chassis...and much better approach and departure angles. Also adds the availablity of locking center and rear diffs, which helps. Though it doesn't have the ground clearance or water fording depth of the smaller Touareg! it is essentially a well off-road equipped Tahoe/Suburban with a Hummer body kit on it. Not bad...capable, but don't try the Rubicon trail in it. Again, at least it is built super strong and very heavy duty, so it won't easily break!

SAVs - BMW X5, Mercedes M Class, Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, Dodge Durango, Chevrolet Suburban, Chevrolet Trail Blazer, Pontiac Aztec, Honda CRV, Hyundai Santa Fe, Renault Scenic RX4, Daihatsu Terios, Mitsubishi Challenger, Toyota RAV4 - Don't do it. Don't take these on anything more challenging than an unpaved road. Some will do better than others...Trailblazer, Durango, M-Class, and Hyundai Santa Fe will do OK on beaches and light trail duty...but the others are out of their class and are going to be a large and expensive boulder for real off roaders to have to crawl over in the middle of the trail.

In my opinion, it comes down to this - the real heavy-duty off roaders, properly equipped from the factory, and with no other aftermarket options, are: Hummer H1, Land Rover Defender, Land Rover Range Rover, Land Rover Discovery, VW Touareg, Porsche Cayenne, Toyota Land Cruiser, Mercedes-Benz Gelandewagen, and Jeep Wrangler. Honorable mentions to Nissan Patrol, Mitsubishi Montero, Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee, Toyota 4-Runner and Hummer H2.

[speeder94]

chevrolet blazer (big oones)

tahoe

cherokee

wrangler

silverado

[Landbarger]

I must agree with zackidawg on Expedition. I drive one, and it has been used off road, carrying 4-5+ people on rutted out muddy trails. you're right, that's what they're good for, but it's also why i like it. not like an Escalade or even Navigator that will never see dirt. I have to say though, it was a good American 4x4. For our roads it is an excellent full size SUV. Don't take it on a safari, of course it wasn't designed to go on one. IMO it's as soft as any "SUV" should be, when it comes to what it was intended for, it gets the job done.

[zackiedawg]

Landbarger, Thanks...I wish more people bought cars for the purposes they were actually designed for instead of for fashion or to keep up with their neighbors! The Expedition has a market in which it would be excellent...as you use it. Anything with as much passenger and cargo room should be used to CARRY passengers or cargo! And the 4x4 edition adds the ability to have a very large, roomy SUV that can handle light duty off-roading without getting stuck, for travelling through bad roads, backroads, and snow.

Instead, more people use them like my stepbrother, who bought one for his wife and their three kids. A 91Lb woman and three kids aged 5-8...and they need an 8 passenger, 4wd, 3 ton, 18-foot long, 7 foot tall SUV to get from their house in Suburban Boca Raton to the ballet school down the street, and the grocery store!

The funny thing was they bought it on the oft misunderstood context that it was safer than a car or minivan. In one sense...if they were to collide with a New Beetle or a Neon, they would definately fare better in the impact. So is it safer? Well, what happens when they hit a tree, a lamppost, or some other fixed object? Now all of that weight is striking something heavier, and which has no intention of moving...a car fares many times better impacting a fixed object than an SUV. Not to mention an SUV's inclination to roll over after impact, when struck in the side, or if sliding out of control. Nor the fact that they do not have to meet any side-impact standards as cars do. Or that their roofs cannot support the vehicle's weight.

If you buy an SUV because you do sporty things in less traveled areas, and utilize the cargo flexibility of the vehicle...then it is a perfectly understandable purchase. But many of the "SUVs" listed above are simply cars with a bold, trucklike bodystyle grafted on and a basic AWD system underneath, made to appeal to those people buying an SUV because it is a fashion statement, or because they do whatever the market deems popular. Most buyers don't even know they are buying a car with an SUV body...they really think the vehicle is a true truck underneath! Quiz the owners of an Acura MDX (Honda Odyssey nee Accord), Lexus RX or Toyota Highlander (Camry), Honda CRX (Civic), or Ford Escape (Focus) and see if they know where their SAV came from.

Per the subject...many of these aren't even glorified Minivans...many are simply dressed-up cars!

[crayzayjay]

SAV's like the M-Class and X5 are actually a lot better off-road than credited for. Both fared only slightly worse than the new Range Rover in a challenging off-road course test, which saw a (scarred) Rover take the win.

[galaxie500]

some very good input on this thread. a prime "true" suv life example: i am a father of 8 month old triplets, and my wife and i have owned several mitsubishi monteros over the years. passenger space -- room for 3 car seats in the back, plus extra jump seats for when the kids get older. incredibly flexible cargo usage. unsurpassed, so far in my travels, 4x4 capabliity. my 1991 5 speed had to pull my old land rover out of the mud and my buddy's '82 chevy 1/2 ton out of an ice bank. rugged, capable, simple, flexible, with passenger options.

that's why.

[DinanM3_S2]

Im sorry but the Cayenne? That vehicle is way to expensive to actually bring off road. I would be terrified of scratching it. Im sure it would be great for offroading, but I bet 99% of them in the US havnt even seen dirt.