Is Saddam kidding?

[JD@af]

12,000 pages of documentation, "full and complete," that state that Iraq's WMD program has been dismantled? ARE YOU KIDDING???

I could go on about this, but this is such bullshit. It's such a joke the way they go around pissing in our faces. Politics, and in some ways out legal system, is such bullshit, that we are actually going to waste our time "analyzing" all of it, when we've got all that intelligence data supporting not just the continued production, but accelerated preparation of WMD's by Iraq, including enough VX gas to wipe out the entire worlf population (did I really read that correctly?).

In light of this, I am starting to really hope that we stomp that fucker without mercy.

[YogsVR4]

I know he's been pulling the same shit for over a decade now. The appologists for Saddam will be out in short order.

[taranaki]

Problem is,nobody can 'dismantle' knowledge.Even if every last bomb,every factory,and whatever else you need to create a 'weapon of mass destruction',you cannot destroy the expertise with which to make them.The only way that you can ever hope to control the manufacture of weapons is to strip away a country's right to heavy industry.You'd have to close their chemical plants,fuel refineries,steel mills, and monitor the country comprehensively until such time as you considered it to be in the hands of a benign leadership.The crude terms for this are 'occupation' and 'puppet government'.It's a marvelous country that has the forsight to enshrine the rights of its people in a cast-iron constitution,but said constitution is meaningless if you are not prepared to believe that foreign nationals should have parity in their rights to freedom.

Occupation of a country is no guarrantee of enduring freedom[to use a wonderfully inept piece of propaganda].Take a look at Poland, or Northern Ireland,or India or any of the hundreds of nations that have endured hostile takeovers.Eventually,the power shifts back into the hands of the citizens of the homeland,and the empire-builders are sent packing.The nationality of the enemy is always of secondary importance behind his deeply held beliefs.The Al Quaeda example is a classic example of a terror organisation based on beliefs with no single country to call home.You cannot fight an enemy like this on a country by country basis any more than you can shovel sand with a garden fork.

The so-called 'war on terror' may well have been started by an act of terrorism,but has developed into a thin excuse to start raiding any country in the world for no other reason than the fact that one day they may choose to act against the U.S.
If it's an end to terrorism the U.S. wants,it should put more effort into supporting the U.N. and start tackling the issue in countries where terrorism is a daily occurence.

[YogsVR4]

The so-called 'war on terror' may well have been started by an act of terrorism,but has developed into a thin excuse to start raiding any country in the world for no other reason than the fact that one day they may choose to act against the U.S.

Sorry - but that is the biggest pile of bullshit that I've read in quite some time. Its unsupported, indefensable and subjective.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by YogsVR4


Sorry - but that is the biggest pile of bullshit that I've read in quite some time. Its unsupported, indefensable and subjective.

It's subjective,I grant you,but A WIDELY HELD VIEW.America's blatant disregard for world opinion is part of the reason that it is considered a legitimate target by terrorists.

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by taranaki

It's subjective,I grant you,but A WIDELY HELD VIEW.America's blatant disregard for world opinion is part of the reason that it is considered a legitimate target by terrorists.

So? What does that have to do with your statement

has developed into a thin excuse to start raiding any country in the world for no other reason than the fact that one day they may choose to act against the U.S

Thats so much bullshit its amazing someone with half a brain would say it. Americas blatent disregard for world opinion is no different then any other countries disregard for all the other countries opinions. Its just that the US is one of the countries whos opinion really matters. All other countries care what we think - not all care about what New Zealand thinks or Panama or Uruguay or dozens of others.

[Jimster]

Originally posted by YogsVR4


. All other countries care what we think - not all care about what New Zealand thinks or Panama or Uruguay or dozens of others.

Actually you'd be suprised with how much of a voice New Zealand has within the UN- we all know that Yogs loves the UN- don't we folks??

[taranaki]

Originally posted by YogsVR4


Thats so much bullshit its amazing someone with half a brain would say it. Americas blatent disregard for world opinion is no different then any other countries disregard for all the other countries opinions. Its just that the US is one of the countries whos opinion really matters. All other countries care what we think - not all care about what New Zealand thinks or Panama or Uruguay or dozens of others.

Well......It strikes me as symbolic that the more people critisize your useless shitheaded dickbrained fuckwit of a president,the more you launch into personal attacks on the people involved.To the best of my knowledge,I have never insulted you personally Yogs,but I do I really have to put up with flaming from you because your countries foreign policy is little more than an ordinance-testing regime and your president is a left-over from the Cold War era who shouldn't be left alone in the lunchroom for fear of swallowing his own tongue?anybody with half a brain would laugh at him.


If your constitution means that much to you put up with a bit of free speech.And if your consience means anything to you,vote against the morons who are hell-bent on invading Iraq regardless of whether there is any hard evidence to give grounds for it.And spare me the rhetoric about how wonderful and mighty the US forces are,justice is more than getting your way through violence.

[YogsVR4]

Sorry Mr. T but freedom of expression is a two way street. I see many individuals here who keep telling me how awful and destructive we are. Well guess what. Sorry that I stand up for our president. Its a wonderful thing that tens of millions of people here voted for him and that he'll be reelected in a couple years.

I question the intelligence of anyone (especially liberals) who like to call people names when they disagree with their politics. You in particular spend time accusing the US and specifically the administration of doing or planning all these horrendous acts. Its without merit and only defended by using stronger and stonger language to describe him.

And spare me the rhetoric about how wonderful and mighty the US forces are,justice is more than getting your way through violence

What wonderful? They do their job. Kill people and break things. Thats their job and they are good at it. If you think this is only about justice then you have a lot to learn. So you too can spare me the tired old "can't we all just get along" fairytale land you seem to be living in.

[RevHappy Cowboy®]

Let's go kill Saddam blah blah blah....it's all about the oil, it was the oil in the Gulf war, it will be the oil in this war, all it ever does is jack up the gasoline prices

[Moppie]

Originally posted by RevHappy Cowboy®
Let's go kill Saddam blah blah blah....it's all about the oil, it was the oil in the Gulf war, it will be the oil in this war, all it ever does is jack up the gasoline prices

Got it in one!


Saddam has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks.
He is a fachist dictator, and hates Muslims more than George bush does, He has suffered from his own terrorist problems, and has made his own war on Islamic terrorism with in Iraq.


The US invasion of Afgansitan and subesquent destruction of the Tele Ban was a legtimate action, motivated by a pretty nasty act.

The potential US invasion of Iraq and the current troop build and propoganda from the US media is all about the Oil. Under international law its pretty Illigetimate and the reaction by most of the worlds governments reflects this.
It has nothing to do with terrorists hiding in Iraq, or Saddum wanting to invade the US (think about it, how the fuck can he, he cant even invade Isreal, or Saudi Ariaba and win).
It has everything to do with Mr Bush wanting to grab as much controll of the worlds oil supplys to benifit both his own personal bank account and power, and increase the economic and plotical power of the US in the face of the rise in power from the EU.
He wants the US to be able to control the worlds oil supply, which if an invasion of Iraq occurs is exactly what will happen.

I dont know about you, but I have a real problem with a single nation of only 250million people telling the rest of the world with its 4+ billion how much oil they can have.
AMERICA HAS NO FUCKING RIGHT TO THINK IT CAN TELL THE REST OF THE WORLD HOW TO LIVE.


Iv said it before and Ill say it again.
If bush is stupid enough to go through with an invasion of Iraq and a take over of the oil contianed with in, then the US will be the new Roman Empire.
And we all know what happened to the Roman empire

[Moppie]

Originally posted by YogsVR4

. Its just that the US is one of the countries whos opinion really matters.

Why does the opinion of the US matter over the opinion of any other country?
What is so great about a such a social and cultural minority that they should have a say over the opinions of a Majority?

Because at the moment only the UK is a strong surporter of Bush.
The rest of the world is either against him or sitting on the Fence.

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Moppie



Why does the opinion of the US matter over the opinion of any other country?
What is so great about a such a social and cultural minority that they should have a say over the opinions of a Majority?

Because at the moment only the UK is a strong surporter of Bush.
The rest of the world is either against him or sitting on the Fence.

Add little Johnny Howard to the list of supporters- that dumbass is a wannabe Bush- Such a shame as a majority the residents of both the UK and Australia oppose what Bush is doing- Why is it always the idiots left in charge

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by Moppie



Why does the opinion of the US matter over the opinion of any other country?

What is so great about a such a social and cultural minority that they should have a say over the opinions of a Majority?

Because at the moment only the UK is a strong surporter of Bush.
The rest of the world is either against him or sitting on the Fence.

I said it was one that matters. Countries with money, economic potential and military power will always matter more then those with less of any. It may not be fair, but that is the way its been.

As for the rest of the world being against him, there are more counties then just the UK. I dont want to write a bullet list, but wouldn't Isreal count? Or are you saying only countries that you like dont agree with him.

As for "Saddam has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks." I'm glad Mr. T has that information and he is willing to share it with the rest of us
Controlling Iraq does not control the worlds oil supply. The Saudis and the Russians have the largest reserves - not Iraq.

Thank god Bush is in office. Among other reasons, he makes the extreme leftists in the world (communits and socialist) whine and cry like little babies. :finger:

[Moppie]

Originally posted by YogsVR4



Thank god Bush is in office. Among other reasons, he makes the extreme leftists in the world (communits and socialist) whine and cry like little babies. :finger:

Are you accusing me of being an extrem leftist? :finger:

And once Bush controls Iraq he will find it very easy to controll the rest of the middle east, and from there a large enough chunk of the worlds oil reserves to be able to dictate how the world market works.

Remember the US has its own damn large oil reserves, they just choose to rape the rest of the world first.



And to say its OK for the US to try and controll the world because they are the biggest bully and tough if its not fair, but then get all up set and demand justice and scream its not fair when the US gets attacked by terrorists is not only Hypocritical, but also very imature.
Go watch 10 year olds playing in school, they practice exactly the same sort of narrow minded self centered pollotics.

Being the biggest still dosn't give the US the right to tell the rest of the world how to behave, and niether does a justifcation based on History.

At the moment only the UK, Australia and the US state of Israel surport any invasion of Iraq. And the general populations of all 3 countrys oppose it. There have been enough polls conducted to show that the leaders of all 3 nataions are acting against the will of the majority.



The EU is about to come along and tell the US where to stick it.
When fully combined it will be the biggest bully on the block in terms of ecomomic power, and the US will no longer be number 1.
Bush and his croonies know this, and are looking for a way to either stop it, (notice the UK keeps holding back on accepting the Euro) or controll the beast when its fully grown.
Having controll over the middle easts oil reserves (with polotical surport of Saudi Ariaba, and conquest of Iraq) would do this. The US would be able to dictate the price of oil, to the rest of the world, while supplying itself at a low price.

Capitalist America in its current "we are the greatest and you will all either follow us, or be raped by us" attitude is not sustianable.
I just hope enough patriotic Consumerists are alive when it collapses for me to say "I told you so"



I dare anyone here to deny that any invasion of Iraq is motivated by Oil. (and mean it when you say it)