Asking for an opinion....

[DOCTORBILL]

I have a 1990 straight six 4 liter, manual transmission Cherokee with 220,000 miles on it.

It only gets 23 mpg which in these times is Hideous!

The engine does not use oil. No engine problems yet.

The body and interior are in nice shape.

I have a set of snow tires on wheels for it.

However, the clutch loses fluid and needs to be pumped up with the pedal
frequently.

Totally unreliable to use - I lose clutch function anywhere at any time!

I'm told the piston that pushes in the throwout bearing probably has a bad
seal and leaks fluid. No fluid anywhere to be seen - but it still loses fluid!

A local Clutch Repair Shop gets $450 to change the clutch and Throwout Bearing, etc.

Just working on the Throwout Piston would require dropping the Transmission
to get at it and cost as much as a clutch job itself in the end....

With 220,000 miles on this vehicle it is a gamble that the engine may go TU at
any time....

I know Jeeps with "straight six" engines can go 400,000 miles, but what opinions can
I get on going ahead and fixing the Clutch or Dumping the car - couldn't get much with a bad
clutch anyway.

Also - I don't think I would want to attempt fixing this myself - I'm 65 and this is
a big vehicle!

DoctorBill

[restrorob]

Doc, First off I wish my 93 4.0 4sp. auto would get 23 MPG. Best I get is 18.2 highway....


On your clutch issue, You say it looses fluid but there is no leak. Can I assume you mean under the vehicle you see no fluid leaking ?

If I'm not mistaken the clutch master cylinder is mounted to the firewall and the actuator rod runs through to the clutch pedal. It's very possible the clutch master is leaking out of the rear where this actuator rod comes out. This will cause the fluid to leak on the inside of the firewall and your carpet/floor insulation will soak it up.

Look up under your dash around the clutch pedal pivot point and see if the carpet is wet.

Good Luck

[DOCTORBILL]

Nope.

I heard about that and checked.

No fluid inside or at the firewall outside.

Has to be the clutch throwout piston. Probably spins the Fluid against the
Bell and it drains out under the car while driving. (?)

After all, the clutch master cylinder doesn't hold THAT much fluid and when it slowly
drains (wherever), it is not all that much that I'd see it...an ounce or two over a couple days.

Wish it was that simple!

Think it is worth putting $450 into now...?

DoctorBill - the Metroglodite (Geo Metro Forum)

PS - You are going to talk me into saving it! - 23 mpg is good, huh?
It is a 5 speed manual. That good old 4 L straight six tractor engine was
one Hell of a good engine! USES NO OIL ! At 220,000 miles!

[citizen@large]

Well, you Metro-dweller you, (that's damn funny btw)

First, I wish I was closer than 3000+ miles from you. I'd come by in a heartbeat to try and smack her back into shape with you.

Second, I see that you're asking this question from a metro-frugal standpoint. You didn't specify whether she's a 4WD model or not, but from the 23MPG @ 220+, I'd take a guess that way...

So, my breakdown. If you don't Love Jeep (her), Don't need to have the 4WD, Can't afford or Find a cool friend to do it. Sell.

If any of the above aren't true, consider a trade/barter deal, or save up and go the distance with her.

~My 2 sense... Good Luck Friend

[restrorob]

I believe I would take it to a shop and have them do a compression test and give it a general check-over for anything that may be fixing to pose a problem.
A compression test would give you a idea of what condition the rings and valves are in.

BTW, I think 23 is great on a 4X4, Mine is a 2X......

Good Luck

[DOCTORBILL]

Sorry - yes it is a 4WD Cherokee. Lever by Shift uses Vacuum on the fly.

I really keep it only because it will pull a utility trailer I have to use maybe once
a year and if the snow is reeealy deep, I can get to work.

I live 30 miles out in the country in Eastern WA State.

I put the Jeep on "Storage" insurance with Farmer's and the Plate Tabs are $50
per year. I drive the little Metro 1 liter 3 cyl and get 49 mpg regularly.

The Jeep is a Horse as far as power and will walk thru almost anything in 4WD.

You see, I'm slowly talking myself into fixing the Clutch....

Damn, $450 is a lot though.

Yes, Restrorob, I tell others to do a compression test and here I've not done it
myself!

That would tell me a lot.

If the valves are good and the rings are good, I suppose it would be worth the
$450 to fix the clutch.

But after 17 years most of the rubber components are probably going to go bad.
Seals and such.

I have been a faithful oil changer.

If the injectors go, that will kill it - hideous expense to fix.

Sell it - with a bad clutch Throwout piston? Ha!

There are more Jeeps in Spokane than you can shake a stick at! The place is crawling
with Jeeps. If I was 30 years younger, I'd have a go at fixing it myself.

I replaced my Geo Metro Rings and piston rod bearings myself a year and a half ago
on my little toy car Metro. This Jeep is a monster compared to the Metro.

One piston in the Cherokee probably weighs more than the whole Metro engine!

DoctorBill

[citizen@large]

Well then doc,

I suggest that, unless you are needing a hurried answer, you sleep some more on it. If only to give those 'other' wise men here a chance to weigh in.

I can say no more than that your pickle seems to be jar deep. (what a place to be though)

[scoobytuff]

The transmission in your Jeep shouldn't be that difficult to pull out. I am assuming that you are talking about the slave cylinder leaking on the Jeep, located right inside the bellhousing. I have had the transmission and tranfer case out of my Jeep numerous times for different repairs and modifications. I have an automatic and with a really good floor jack and a transmission jack adapter you could make light work out of replacing whatever you wanted to. I use a plain floor jack with a couple of 2x4s for any work like that. It's not the best way to do it but it works for me. If you could fix a 2x4 to the jack in some manner or a couple of 2x4s repairs would be simple. Really the tranfer case probably weighs more than the transmission as does the skid plate. Even if you had to pay $450 I think it would be worth it if that also incuded replacing the clutch. The labor rate should be about the same whether you have the clutch replaced or not.

[fredjacksonsan]

My : putting in $450 is worth it - especially as reliable as you say the Jeep has been for you - even if other things go away down the road. You said it yourself, you're an avid oil changer and these engines go 400k.

My brother always says, "You either make repairs, or make payments, and hopefully not both". In this case it seems there's nothing else wrong, so keeping it running is a good option IMHO.

[DOCTORBILL]

DAMN!

This is where ignorance is expensive.....

Scoobytuff - you called it the "Slave Cylinder" !

Once I knew what it is called, I looked on Google and found a lot of information!

Now I can look in the Jeep Manual and maybe fix this thing myself or get it
fixed for a lot less...(?)

Thanks for that lead!

Here are some sites concerning Clutch Slave Cylinders:

http://p-car.com/diy/cscr/

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jeep-Repa...e-cylinder.htm

this one is exactly my Jeep....!
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you..._Jeep_Cherokee

Sounds like I have to cough up that $450......

DoctorBill

[DOCTORBILL]

That was a deep throated cough - $499 total cost.....

Had the clutch and slave cylinder replaced this weekend. The kit was $180 included in the charge of $499.

The '90 Cherokee 4 L straight six 5 speed has 210,000 on it and gets 23 mpg - no smoke.

I heard these babies can go to 300,000 w/o major engine repair.....

I'll keep changing the oil at 3,000 miles.

When the Fuel Injection goes - how bad is that fix's cost ?

DoctorBill

[AlohaBra]

That is why I use an automatic. Never need to do a clutch or clutch hydraulics.

WTH...23 mpg! Holy smokes! How many miles do you go on a tank?

[DOCTORBILL]

Around 380 miles on 17 gallons......

I think 23 mpg is terrible when gasoline is $3/gallon.

My Geo Metro gets 49 mpg summer and 43 mpg now in winter.....

Once you've driven a Geo Metro with mileage like that, anything else looks awful!

Now after getting it fixed, I can't get it to go into 4x4....

It is almost totally useless as a one wheel rear-wheel drive car!
Gets stuck on a flat in half an inch of snow!

I think maybe those old vacuum lines to the front axle are T.U.

I hope it is as simple as that.

How does the front axle 4x4 engage....? How does it work ?

DoctorBill

PS - also the ignition switch sticks on when cranking - can't get the starter to Stop Cranking!

She's gettin' long in the tooth.....

[XJ99]

Yea and was watching news today and gas is supposed to be over 3.50/gal by June I have an exhaust leak I need to fix so hopefully I will have better gas mileage does not help with winter and all

[mmcpeck]

Doc...If it was me I would take it back to the shop that did the work, and let them know that it doesn't go into 4WD anymore, may be something they didn't hook back up right. I'd try that before playing with anything, that way you don't interfere with their 30 day warranty policy or whatever they gave you.

By the way I am really jealous of your 23mpg. My '87 gets about 17 or 18 and that's on the highway, 15 or 16 around town, but it's an automatic. Strongest damn vehicle I ever owned, even with 170K on it....nothing for being 21 years old, and from what I read nothing for an AMC 4.0L I6.