Need Parafilm M help.

[cyberkid]

I've recently decided to buy a roll of parafilm M after seeing it being used as an alternative for normal masking methods, and a lot cheaper considering it's streching abilities.
I'm wondering a few things:
1. How well does this stuff react to automotive paints? I've heard that it handles most hobby paints without problems. Ie.: enamel, acyrilic, synthetic lacquers..
2. How well does it stick to dried paint? I've seen it used a lot for masking canopies, which is dry clear unpainted plastic.
3. Will it 'leak' if applied to paint?
4. Are there any pointers that you guys who have used this could point out?

Thanks in advance,
Steve

[Murray Kish]

I've been using it a bit lately too, and here's what I've found:

- works over gloss paints best. Flat paints it don't stick to very well.
- sticks best when you stretch it both ways. If you just stretch it one way, it sticks OK, but works better if you stretch the other way too.
- I've never had it react with any underlying paint
- Never had it bleed.

However:
- be careful with hot paints (lacquers). If you just 'mist' the paint on slowly, and in several coats, it should be OK. But if you put a thick layer on, it likely will eat the Parafilm (not good), and kinda turn it into a bit of a gooey mess....
- putting it in a dehydrator hasn't worked well for me. Although it doesn't outright melt the parafilm, it seems to make it stick to the underlying paint more, and seems to soften up the parafilm at the same time. So, when you go to remove the parafilm, it tends to break, or not want to come off. I've never had it peal paint or decals, but it just sorta breaks down and becomes a pain to get off. My suggestion is to let the paint air dry for several minutes, then remove the masking, then put it in the dehydrator.


I think it's great stuff. Been using it more and more lately, although Tamiya Masking tape is still my #1 choice.

Murray

[cyberkid]

Thanks Murray, about getting it off... here's a link to a nice how to I found on the web..

Originally Posted by David W. Aungst

The length of time on the model and the types of paints you use will effect how easily Parafilm-M will come off the canopies. I use some pretty potent paints (enamels and lacquers thinned with Xylene) and I tend to leave the Parafilm-M on the model for upwards of a month (on average) as I do not unmask the canopies until after I complete weathering. This combination leaves the Parafilm-M pretty tight on the canopy. This is good as no paint gets under the Parafilm-M. It took me some time, though, to figure out how to easily remove it.

What I use that seems the easiest with the least damage to anything is a short strip of Evergreen styrene (0.100 by 0.080 inch cross-section and about 4 inches long). I file one end to a chisel point and use this to scrape off the Parafilm-M. As the Evergreen styrene is softer than the canopy, no scratching occurs. And the paints I use are tough enough to not get damaged by the scraping, either. I believe that if you use less potent paints, like water based acrylics, the Parafilm-M comes off much easier. But, I have never tried testing this.

Originally Posted by Murray Kish

I think it's great stuff. Been using it more and more lately, although Tamiya Masking tape is still my #1 choice.

Same here, I'm more or less looking at it as a good masking material to cover mass areas without costing an arm and a leg.. like: this
Everything else I've tried doesn't really work well or is hazardous to the paint/plastic.

Thanks for the tips,
Steve

[CifeNet]

Hello Steve,

The good new is all your concerns shouldn't be a big problem. You can use this without a major problem over lacquer/enamel/acrylics/etc... And no funny reaction from it.

Para M has some advantage over the masking tape; simply it won't "stick-stick" to the paint, so it works well when you are performing "two-tone" paint scheme and to minimize any paint damage (there is no tacky part of the masking tape).

And you can shape this nicely to create "curve" lines. However, you need to be careful and be sure to stretch the film tight and secure the edges to hold the film over a given surface.

I once had a problem where my airbrush air was blowing up the film, lifting it from the surface! So be sure to stretch tightly and secure the ends...

And you won't be able to mask places that are tight and small... So you still have to use the normal masking tape on certain places...

I used it to cover the white from the red when I was making the F1 M@rlboro sponsored MP4/8 car. It worked great!

[klutz_100]

Murray and Steve have got you covered (no pun intended).

It's great stuff although expensive (at least here). I bought 2 rolls of different thickness and I won't tell you how much I paid! but it will all last me for 15 modeling lifetimes I think

The only thing I can add of practical use is to confirm that it withstands Alclad and I don't think they get much hotter than that!

I used it to mask off the fenders on my Daytona to paint the headlight bays with Alclad Chrome and no issues at all either with it sticking to the painted body or the Alclad melting it.

I also used it to mask of for painting the grille on a my prowler with Alclad Chrome



I also used it in a failed attempt to paint flames (my fault not the Parafilm). I spread it over the painted body, drew the basic flame shapse with a sharpie and cut it with light pressure form a fresh scalpel blade.

I can only agree with everything else that has been said above.

[cyberkid]

Originally Posted by klutz_100

It's great stuff although expensive (at least here). I bought 2 rolls of different thickness and I won't tell you how much I paid! but it will all last me for 15 modeling lifetimes I think

Two types of thickness? do you mean film thickness? or the width of the film?
I paid 21.61 for a roll of 4" * 125m... cheapest I could get here without too much hastle.
A couple follow up Q's:
1. Has anyone used Parafilm M under Zero paints? or any other automotive paints?
2. Is there any way to burnish the edges better? Call me paranoid but I keep thinking the film will just fly off
3. How long do you guys let it settle after streching? I know the how-to I linked says ten seconds but mine still slightely shrinked after that...
Thanks again for the replies and thanks in advance to any more...
Steve

[klutz_100]

Yep, you are being paranoid j/k

There is NO way to burnish this stuff down IMO. Any attempt to do that will just lift it up because (as I guess you already know) it is quite "sticky" after stretching. In fact I would say that there is NO NEED to burnish it

I have no experience (yet) of using it with Zero paints but my instinct tells me that if it works with Alclad II, why not with Zero?

My bad - I meant "widths", not "thicknesses". Sorry.

TBH, I never (consciously) let the film "rest" after stretching. I just sort of pulled it in a few directions and put it in place. Maybe there was a natural pause before putting it on and that was enough..?

Steve, I really think th e best thing for you to do, since you already have the film, is to give it a test run on a scrap body or something. That's what I did before I put it into use on a "real" project - there is no substitute for practical experience

[Murray Kish]

My experience with not paints is this:
- hot paints that dry quickly will generally be OK, as long as you don't really flood the paint on (follow Klutz advice though, and try it out on a scrap model...). I didn't have any problem with Alclads either, but these are usually misted on, and dry almost instantly. There's no time for it to attack the parafilm.
- my biggest challenges have been with Humbrol paints. Humbrol seems to dry very very slowly. They flow really nicely, but this tends to give them more time to attack the parafilm. Combine that with the dehydrator, and I usually end up scraping the parafilm off (never had underlying paint damage, just a bit of a chore in getting it off...)

Do some experiments. Try it out with your paints, and let us know what you find.

Murray

[cyberkid]

Originally Posted by klutz_100

Steve, I really think the best thing for you to do, since you already have the film, is to give it a test run on a scrap body or something. That's what I did before I put it into use on a "real" project - there is no substitute for practical experience

Yeah, I know... I'm just trying to get as much info as possible. I'm sometimes pretty 'closed minded' when trying new things.. I like to get allll the info possible...
Thanks guys..I'll post my findings when I finish testing.

[CFarias]

This is kind of on topic. I've use PM on my car and military projects and agree with everything that has been said about it. But, I would like to add, as a tip, the PM makes a very easy way to seal jars of paint.

If you are like me I seem to have more airbrush jars than tops. Stretching PM over the tops preserves the paint for later use. I've even stored paint for weeks this way. As mentioned it is not absolutely invulnerable to lacquer paints but two layers of PM will hold the paint until your project is done. Also, after I clean the jars out I stretch PM over the tops to keep the dust out until I need them again.

[cyberkid]

Originally Posted by CFarias

If you are like me I seem to have more airbrush jars than tops. Stretching PM over the tops preserves the paint for later use. I've even stored paint for weeks this way. As mentioned it is not absolutely invulnerable to lacquer paints but two layers of PM will hold the paint until your project is done. Also, after I clean the jars out I stretch PM over the tops to keep the dust out until I need them again.

Thanks for these tips... my slow mind wouldn't have thought of them...
One question though is there any chance of leakage when using the PM for sealing jars?

[CFarias]

Sorry to reply so late.

You should not expect PM to keep liquid from leaking out. The thin solvents in paint will work their way between the PM and the jar loosening the seal. The jars must remain upright.

If you are wondering about the solvent vapor from leaking, I've have not noticed any thickening of the paint which would indicate solvent loss. Stretch the PM over the top and the excess wrap around the threads of the jar. This will make a good seal. As mentioned previously hot solvents like lacquer or acetone may "burn" through the thin PM, but a couple of layers will suffice for short-term, project-length, storage.

It turns out that PM was originally designed to seal jars -- test tubes, anyway.

[cyberkid]

Ok, thanks for the replies...
@all: I've tried Zero paints without a problem with it reacting. There IS one problem though... since I spray Zero paints at around 25-40 psi... the film is easily lifted.... I've also noticed that its not really good for masking up to a panel line.. So, I've done this:

Should have used thinner masking tape (I'm stingy )... but still... everything went fine.
@CFarias: I know about the original usages of PM... just that my mind was too slow to turn around and think of it as a possibility for temperary sealing of jars... I like the tip you mentioned about keeping the dust out of empty jars.
Semi-OT: Are Zero paints considered Automotive paints??? I always thought they were.. but recently I saw on Steve's site...

Originally Posted by Hiroboy.com@Zero Paints F.A.Q

What type of Paints are they?
The paints supplied are called "Acrylic Basecoats" these can be Solid, Metallic, Mica, Pearl or Candy colours depending on the finish.

So, technically could I still call them automotive paints?...
Before anyone tells me: "You could write him..." I know I could, but he is extremely busy...I somewhat feel sorry for him, 'cause I've worked those hours before...
Thanks again for all the help..
muchas gracias.. Many thanks
Steve

[Didymus]

I read on a forum that Glad Press'n Seal is a cheaper and improved commercial version of Parafilm. True? Does it work the same?

And can it be used with Tamiya TS-series paints? They are synthetic lacquers, and I thin them with lacquer thinner. (I just dipped some PnS in lacquer thinner. It removed the surface gum, but it didn't seem to weaken or dissolve the film itself.)

Diddy