ESi TSi chip swap?

[RobbyQ]

ok, so i got this 1995 Eagle Talon ESi that I was thinking about adding a turbo to. Here's my question (and problem)... I'm a soldier currently stationed in Germany, the good thing about that is I've got the only Talon in the area, the bad thing is I'ts impossible to find someone who can tune them. So my question is... if I add a turbo to my ESi can I just swap out the chip with a TSi? is it even neccessary?

[SilvrEclipse]

You cant change out the ECU with a turbo one. How much power do you want? Depending on the power levels you want you may not have to tune it at all. If you just want to run like 7-8psi it wont need to be tuned, just run a 12:1 FMU. It you want to build the bottom end and upgrade the fuel system you will need to have to tune it somewhat.

[RobbyQ]

eventually I'll add new pistons rods cams and cam gears but for now the rest of the engine probably won't be upgraded until the interior work is done.
So 8psi should be fine, is there anything else I should slap on real quick to make sure my engine will be ok?

[gthompson97]

I'm assuming you already have an upgraded exhaust? If not, do that before you turbo it, and if you don't want to do a complete exhaust, you could always just go with a GS-T axle-back for a bit more flow. Also, make sure you do a COMPLETE tune-up before doing any type of big modifications (like a turbo), your motor will thank you.

[RobbyQ]

should I replace the head gasket? I also forgot to mention the turbo I want to put on now, I would like to be able to press a good 20 - 25 ibs of pressure out of and just regulate it to 5-8ibs until I upgrade the rest of the engine. would a T3 be ok, and does it need to be intercooled for just 8ibs of boost?

[gthompson97]

8psi on a T3 is probably more than your stock internals are going to hold for very long, now if it was 8psi on a T-25 or 14b it wouldn't be so bad, but even at the same pressure, they flow very different numbers. Also, with running anything other than a T-25, you'll need some bigger injectors, upgraded fuel pump, AFPR, and a tuning device. A front mount intercooler wouldn't be needed, but a stock turbo eclipse/talon side mount intercooler you'll need. As for the HG, you shouldn't need to replace it unless it's bad.

I have a feeling you need to do a shitload more reading before even thinking about attempting this upgrade. By the questions you just asked, I'm assuming you don't know very much about modding dsms, or any type of forced induction for that matter. Not trying to be an ass, but you need to learn and understand exactly what you're doing before you go throwing thousands of $$ at it and just end up breaking more shit.

[RobbyQ]

lol, actually you hit the nail on the head. This is my first project car, I've never really modded out a car before and wanted to give it a shot. In fact I'm an F-body guy, so the tuner thing is all foreign to me. I've been in the ARMY so as you can imagine I don't get out much. and from the answeres I've been getting to my questions I think I need to read into all of this alot more too. lol.

[RobbyQ]

ok, new question, (and I'm sure this has all been brought up before somewhere so even just a link to the thread would be helpfull.) Can you give me a complete list of everything I would need to mod, tune, and/or replace to get this car upto a good 400whp? any info (or links to info) you could provide me with would be helpfull and greatly appreciated. I don't need costs of the items, and the work, my buddies and I can do ourselves. (were all aircraft mechanics and most of us were car mechanics at one time.) And whether or not it would be worth it or required to keep the 420a or to swap it.

[SilvrEclipse]

A lot of people who run the T3 turbos like the 60 Trim. I would personaly stick with a 16g or something. As far as the set up you will need:
Manifold, Downpipe, Turbo, External Wastegate(perferably), FMIC, Intercooler pipe, BOV, Vortech SFMU, 310cc injectors aren't a bad idea, Walbro 255 fuel pump, Gauges-boost-EGT-a/f

Im sure I have left some things out but this is most of it. This setup will support you up to about 13psi with fuel which in plenty on a stock motor. This is pretty much what I run right now and it works great, very little tuning to do.

[Micjohvan]

With what you are looking at trying to get (400whp) you might want to consider just getting a factory turbo car. That will save you a good bit on money. 420a motors usually cant handle much boost without extensive work whereas a stock turbo 4G63 can easily do 12-15psi or beyond with the right stuff.

[Thor06]

In all honesty dude, if you are looking for a 400 whp car, you are barking up the wrong tree. To get 400 whp out of your car, you are looking at a very lengthy and costly build of the 420a or a very lengthy and costly swap/build of a 4g63. Not to mention that should you get the 400 fwhp, you will have a bastard of a time getting it to hook.

Here is a pretty good list of what you will need, though there may be a thing or two needed that is not on the list as I am not 100% familiar with the 420a car/motor.
-Built bottom end with forged pistons and rods and I think an aftermarket crank
-Built top end to support the cams necessary to make that kind of power. You'll need the cams (272's at least), some more aggressive springs and retainers atleast, others will argue for a port and polish, valve job, etc.
-Built tranny and probably some aftermarket axles. My 420a Neon buddy snapped axles like toothpicks on his 400+ hp Neon.
-Decent clutch. Along the lines of a ACT 2600, Zoom/Fidanza Stage 3, etc. A lightweight flywheel isnt necessary but may be a good idea.
-Nice fuel system. You'll need a Walbro 255 pump, an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, and some bigger injectors (I think you'll need 750cc+ for 400 hp on gas, not entirely sure though) and I am pretty sure you will need aftermarket fuel lines as well.
-A good FMIC
-The turbo system. This includes turbo (a decent 50 trim should do you fine for 400 whp), exhaust manifold, wastegate (if not on the turbo), 3" exhaust, intercooler pipes, BOV, all necessary oil/water lines, probably other stuff I am too tired to remember at the moment.
-SMIM and bigger TB. I would assume the stock intake manifold and throttle body would be completely insufficient to make 400 hp so it would need to be replaced with a sheet metal one.
-Megasquirt. Probably the best option for tuning for the 420a. I doubt the SAFC would work for ya, I dont think it can support big enough injectors for 400 hp and without ignition timing 400 whp is pretty impossible I think.
-Good tires to get all that to hook.

I would start off with small goals. Try for 200 whp first. When you can get that, try for like 300whp, then 350, then go for 400. Just know that this is going to be a long, expensive road for any DSM, but way more so for the 420a.

Side note, you're an aircraft mechanic huh? The guy that lives across the hall from me is an aircraft mechanic as well and is currently stationed in Germany, at Rammstein I'm pretty sure. I cant remember the names of the systems he maintains, but they are the antimissile ones that drop shit to distract the missiles.

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

An Aircraft mechanic in the Army? I'm guessing helicopters? Do they even have planes? Just wondering. Yeah my goal is 400 awhp in the gsx, the cost hasn't been that bad so far, but now that I had to redo my fuel system for the 2nd time, upgrade to an eprom, and of course the bigger turbo, it's starting to add up.

[RobbyQ]

yah I'm a 15-R (Appache attack helicopter mechanic/crew-cheif) and I've been to rammstein... those air-force guys really live it up! but i'm stationed in Illesheim (small and shitty base)

..anywho I realize it will be expensive and take some time, but trust me... with the team I put together I'm sure it's not going to take that much time at all. We did a complete Appache transmission swap (normally a one week task for a full team working 24/7) in 4 hours w/ paperwork. we even set an ARMY record. so I have confidence we can pull it off. the problem is we're all new to tuner cars, we're all F-body and fox body guys, and most of us have produced or worked on actuall car teams that have produced seriouse power. I worked with All Mustang Performance, (AMPperformance.com) before I joined the army.

[defiancy]

Originally Posted by RobbyQ

yah I'm a 15-R (Appache attack helicopter mechanic/crew-cheif) and I've been to rammstein... those air-force guys really live it up! but i'm stationed in Illesheim (small and shitty base)

..anywho I realize it will be expensive and take some time, but trust me... with the team I put together I'm sure it's not going to take that much time at all. We did a complete Appache transmission swap (normally a one week task for a full team working 24/7) in 4 hours w/ paperwork. we even set an ARMY record. so I have confidence we can pull it off. the problem is we're all new to tuner cars, we're all F-body and fox body guys, and most of us have produced or worked on actuall car teams that have produced seriouse power. I worked with All Mustang Performance, (AMPperformance.com) before I joined the army.

Man I think me and you are two peas in a pod! I was a Marine, who worked on helicopters (CH53E's the big fast ones) and also before I came to DSM's I was an Fox Body guy as well. (I have also worked on a number of F-bodies as well) I have owned several mustangs from a 91,95 to an 03 cobra.

I don't doubt you guys have the technical know how. But like the others said, this is going to be a costly rebuild for those numbers. Very costly.

Originally Posted by Thor06

Side note, you're an aircraft mechanic huh? The guy that lives across the hall from me is an aircraft mechanic as well and is currently stationed in Germany, at Rammstein I'm pretty sure. I cant remember the names of the systems he maintains, but they are the antimissile ones that drop shit to distract the missiles.

The countermeasure systems?

[RobbyQ]

oh yah! the 03 cobra was a damned good car! anywho... the money's coming from a car I just recently sold in the sates, so I've got atleast 10k to start off with right now. the rest is my paychecks spending money (about 1k a month). The reason I'm so set on putting so much into a Talon is because these germans have never seen or heard of them before and they absolutely love tuners, cause they really can't get that kind of stuff here without paying up the wazoo for shipping. (luckilly the APO helps with my shipping costs.) a talon in a German car show is almost guarenteed to place!

I actually sighned up at that carsponsorships.com thing. it worked but I think those sponsors are sponsors everybody gets after sighning up with them. And the'yre really not all that great. usually just partiall sponsorships that give you 30-40% discounts on certain products. but they do autimatically quallify you for full sponsorships if you win a trophy at a local car show. So as much as I hate to say it, I'm probably going to go with the looks right now so I can place in a car show, get my money back, and put that money into the engine. ( I just hate having a tricked out ricer with no balls!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor06
Side note, you're an aircraft mechanic huh? The guy that lives across the hall from me is an aircraft mechanic as well and is currently stationed in Germany, at Rammstein I'm pretty sure. I cant remember the names of the systems he maintains, but they are the antimissile ones that drop shit to distract the missiles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancy
The countermeasure systems?

...Chaffs