Installing a re-built 350 in a Camaro

[P51nerd]

Looking into buying an '86 Camaro, but ad was non specific about ingine said "305 pending repair work" but the car is only 750$. how hard would it be to put a re-built 350 in the car, I personally don trust a 305 that needs work. I am on a tight budget (Like what i can do in a few weeks on a Cal. min. wage)
-Anything helps, so if you know ANYTHING plz post.

[Morley]

The 305 & 350 are identical, everything will bolt up.

[MrPbody]

Morely,

Not entirely. The exhaust manifolds for 350 are a little different. There's an "extra" bolt hole, offset, on one end of each head, and 305 manifolds use it. SOME 350 heads (later than '86, "center bolt") have the provision.

A decent set of FULL LENGTH headers will fix that, plus add some good power ("shorties" are for bragging rights, not horsepower).

CAUTION: DO NOT buy a cheap remanufactured engine. You will NOT be happy with it. If you MUST buy a "plug and play" engine, get a GOOD one. Nothing under about $3,500 will cut it. Those "ZZ-4"s (I believe that's what Chevy calls them) are a are a crap shoot regarding power AND durability.

Jim

[P51nerd]

Thx for the reply, any idea where i could get a "zz-4"?

Originally Posted by MrPbody

Morely,

Not entirely. The exhaust manifolds for 350 are a little different. There's an "extra" bolt hole, offset, on one end of each head, and 305 manifolds use it. SOME 350 heads (later than '86, "center bolt") have the provision.

A decent set of FULL LENGTH headers will fix that, plus add some good power ("shorties" are for bragging rights, not horsepower).

CAUTION: DO NOT buy a cheap remanufactured engine. You will NOT be happy with it. If you MUST buy a "plug and play" engine, get a GOOD one. Nothing under about $3,500 will cut it. Those "ZZ-4"s (I believe that's what Chevy calls them) are a are a crap shoot regarding power AND durability.

Jim

[stieh2000]

Originally Posted by P51nerd

Thx for the reply, any idea where i could get a "zz-4"?

Google "350 crate motor" and thank me later.

[Morley]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

Morely,

Not entirely. The exhaust manifolds for 350 are a little different. There's an "extra" bolt hole, offset, on one end of each head, and 305 manifolds use it. SOME 350 heads (later than '86, "center bolt") have the provision.

Not quite, my 305 manifolds will bolt right up to the 350 heads I have in my car ...not that I'd want or recommend using 305 manifolds on a 350.

[MrPbody]

Perhaps you misunderstood. ZZ-4 is a POS, usually requiring disassembly, clearancing, resealing, and a very good "tune". They have Chinese rods and cranks, cheap pistons, and simply aren't what they're purported to be. We've seen several with bent (yes, bent over .005", as a matter of fact) crankshafts. We've seen piston-to-wall over .003", when it should be .002". We've seen them POUR oil out at all possible points... Need I go on? One man I know dynoed one of the "370 HP" versions, and got 345 at 5,400, and it fell off there.

Simply stated, the first thing we do to a Chevrolet engine to be used for racing or high performance, is disassemble it and "blue print" the key areas. This has been true since racing first came to the "masses" with 265... These craters are nothing more than Chevy mass-produced engines, hecho en Mexico... Why should they be any different? The "things" that make the Chevy cheaper also make it sloppy and in need.

Eagle and World Products make the better "craters", but as stated previously, they are NOT cheap. Frank Beck in Phoenix also markets some real good small block packages. These engines do not use Chevrolet parts, only Chevrolet "architecture" (including the blocks).

A good machine shop, no matter where they're located, SHOULD be able to build you a killer small block for the same or less money than a crater. I know ours (small blocks) stomp the craters for the same money. Sometimes, convenience can lead us astray... The best things in life are worth waiting for, and seldom "cheap".

Jim

[hotrod_chevyz]

Originally Posted by P51nerd

how hard would it be to put a re-built 350 in the car, I personally don trust a 305 that needs work.

Its an easy swap. You can swap out the block in a driveway over the weekend if you have the right tools and know what your doing. You will have to upgrade other areas of the car in order to deal with the added power the 350 has. That being said, on a budget it might be wise for you to send the block it has down to a machine shop for a rebuild. Put it all back together and upgrade the rest later. 305's can be quite powerful with the right heads, cam ect.

[MrPbody]

I tend to agree with HotrodchevyZ. 305 got a reputation it doesn't really deserve. They CAN be made to run hard, too. One of our machinists has an '86 IROC with a 400-plus horsepower 305 that gets 22 MPG. It still uses the orignial injection system, with some upgrades. Good cam (Comp XFI), some judicious head work, full-length headers, 5-speed, and the thing is scary-fast on the top-end (2.92 or 3.08 gears, can't remember).

But overall, 305 is snappy and tough. If you want BIG power, not as good a choice as 350...

Jim

[sreve]

if it was me i would spend more on the car. a $3500 motor in a $750 car does
not make much sence to me. the motor is just the start, sounds like a money
pit. there are decent 4th gens out there in the $3500-$5000 range w\100,000
to 150,000 on the clock.
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/car/469820284.html
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/car/466532015.html
just my 2cents

[hotrod_chevyz]

Originally Posted by sreve

if it was me i would spend more on the car. a $3500 motor in a $750 car does
not make much sence to me. the motor is just the start, sounds like a money
pit. there are decent 4th gens out there in the $3500-$5000 range w\100,000
to 150,000 on the clock.

A third gen can be built very cheap, and are as cheap to maintain. The labor bills to keep a 4th gen maintained tend to be high. Considering the cost of everything, doing a "ground up" on a third gen is MUCH cheaper than buying a 4th gen in any kind of shape worth talking about. A high mile 4th gen (100,000+) is a "time bomb" (IMho) because how they are driven. Both gens have equal potential, but the third gen is half the cost and for what you would spend on a used 4th gen, you can build a fresh 3rd gen and KNOW the motor is not going to let you down.

[sportlinetta]

lol, u guys are dummmmmmmmmmmmb im 14 n i know more. i gotta 88 camaro.
350chevy and a 305 chevy both are 4bolt main and exusht will fit perfectly, take out the old and plop in the new and ur done, 1 weekend tops

steps:
1. unbolt
2. lift out
3. clean out
4. drop in new
5. bolt on exust (2bolts)
6. connect all wires (EASY)
7. connect rad hoses
8. STARTER UP


UPGRADES:

HOLLEY CARB.
MSD WIRES ANS PLUGS
HOOKER HEADERS
MAGNA FLOW CATBACK
IF U WANT NEW INTAKE get it
DONE
ABOUT 250bhp

[wrightz28]

Originally Posted by sportlinetta

lol, u guys are dummmmmmmmmmmmb im 14 n i know more. i gotta 88 camaro.
350chevy and a 305 chevy both are 4bolt main and exusht will fit perfectly, take out the old and plop in the new and ur done, 1 weekend tops

Well o-wise one, they are not all 4 bolt mains (350), and dependant upon the year manufactured, there are some discrepencies in the exhaust bolt pattern.

Since you're 14 and boasting it, I would advise you to step down on your insults As I would tell one of my own, if you have nothing nice to say of someone, say nothing at all.

[MrPbody]

No. we're not "dumb". We're experienced. There is no such thing as a factory 4-bolt main 305. I've rebuilt a couple hundred over the span of your lifetime. Another couple hundred BEFORE that...

It's obvious from your description, you've read about it. Myself, having only DONE the job, and never actually READ about it, I can see how you might arrive at your conclusions. Installing a new or rebuilt engine in a 3rd gen F-body is not a MONSTER job, but it's for the experienced, not the beginner.

All the parts in your list are "buzz words". The reality is there are MANY approaches to this build, and no "cookie cutter" solution is as good as a specific one.

While I encourage you to get involved and learn about cars, you really need to park your attitude and show proper respect to those professionals that give freely of their time here. You're in a man's world now, not a boy's. Act accordingly. The first place to go would be the library, to learn how an engine works. No internet "BS" there, go to the real info. Once you understand that, you are on the road to LEARNING how to modify and improve them.

PAX

Jim

[sportlinetta]

lol ok, i admit i am learning but, i also do not ''READ'' lol, yaim just sayen wat i know.
while were on the topic of camaros and 3rd gen, i have an 86 not 88 i made a typo and i have a 2.8lv6 and the first thing i wanna do is swap the motor, theres a guys with a small block 400ci and a small blcok 350ci just blocks, he also has parts for them, i dont know if i should buy one of the blcos and just build on to it or wait for a complete running engine. like how hard would it be for a 14 year old to swap a engine in a 86 camaro and how hard is it to build up and engine from just the block? like is it hard to put the cam in and stuff like valves and shii. if u answer back i will be soooo happy, because i dont nkwo how to post my own threads.