Alternator and Battery replaced, no help...

[fiveqs]

Hi All, I've got a 97 Escort wagon ~90,000mi which until now has been
quite reliable. It all started when (we think) my daughter left the
lights on one day and ran the battery down (tho it might have been
something else). Security at her college brought out one of those
quick jump sort of deals and it looks like they hooked it up
backwards, cuz when I got there the main engine fuse was blown.
Voltage was only 11 or so, when running it was around 12.5. Anyway, we
ended up getting the alternator replaced ("yep, bad alternator"). Next
day everything in the car fades and dies, so I figure well they must
have killed the battery. So replaced the battery (also replaced clamps), and it works great for a day then dies again. Back to the place that replaced the
alternator and they say ("yep, bad alternator, sometimes you get a bad
one"). Car runs great. Sooo... this morning my wife drops my youngest
daughter at school and it happens again.
I've seen on the net where several people had this same thing
happen but I couldn't find where anyone had ever posted the solution they found.
Two other things that happened at the same time were, the back hatch
light was stuck on and the "Room" fuse was blown. I traced that one
back to the wires, where they run between the car and hatch in the
little rubber acordion boot, had a couple where the insulation was
split and one was actually broken and shorting to the ground wire next
to it. I fixed that up and replaced the fuse, everything was fine in
that regard (the hatch light hadn't ben on prior to that, it appears
the wires shorted when I was getting the jumpers out of the back, what
are the odds. Cables seem ok, with new battery and alternator I was
getting 14V til it died.
Anyway, if anyone has had this happen (or not) and can point me in
the right direction I'd Really appreciate it. We're already around
$400 on this deal and can't afford to get another car.
Thanks a bunch!
Paul Q

[GTP Dad]

Welcome to AF!!

One of the issues with most Ford Alternators is that they will not recharge a battery if it is completely dead so make sure the battery is at full charge before starting the car. Next check all the connections to the alternator and the wiring. A bad ground can cause intermittant issues like you describe and would prohibit the alternator from completely charging the system. Finally, check the connection at the back of the alternator where. If you have a bad connector or burnt wire it can cause problems with charging as well.

[emt1134]

Go through the fuses again to make sure you didn't miss anything. Check for voltage drop between positive cable on alternator and battery. You should have nothing more than .5 V

[fiveqs]

Well, while I was sending this this morning, the place that did the alternator (twice) sent a tow to bring it back in. They found bad ground connections. The ground side cable runs off the battery and about 10" later has a little stripped section that attaches to the firewall/body with a crimp clip. they cut that and replaced it and the bolt. I couldn't see where the end of the ground cable ends up (somewhere under the battery holder). I drove it home (~20mi) with bright lights on, fan all the way up, radio on etc. When I got home I had 13V turned off, 14 when running. Dropped to 13.5 with lights on (just sitting there idling), radio dropped it a bit more, A/C and fans maxed it dropped to between 12.5 and 13V (it would gradually droop to about 12.5V then the idle would kick up and bring it back to 13V. Let it sit running this way for a while and when turned off the battery was still at 13. Sooo... maybe...it's fixed? I really need to get a book for this car, any recommendations? Chilton's? or is HAynes better? or do I need to get the service manuals/schematics?
Thanks for all the help folks, it pretty much all pointed to a grounding/connection problem and at the moment that appears to have been it :-)
Thanks again!
Paul Q

[emt1134]

It is normal for voltage to drop as you increase load.. 12.5V - 13V at idle with load is normal. Keep in mind, however, that voltage isn't the only thing you are concerned about in electrical circuits.. You can have 12.5 volts in the system, but not enough amps being generated.

Voltage = electrical potential (pressure)
amperage = amount of charge flowing

So you can have the potential for charge to flow from one place to another, but not enough generation of that charge to meet your electrical needs. I would venture to say that after 2 new alternators, this one is good. Just make this mental note for the future: When installing a new alternator, make sure the battery is fully charged before starting the car... The alternator will have to work too hard if its trying to charge a dead battery and this will possibly burn out your new part.

[Davescort97]

Haynes is good. It has the elctrical schematics and covers everything mechanically including engine overhaul. The factory service manual is good. It has over 500 pages and is very comprehensive but doesn't have the electrical. You have to buy a separate electrical and vacuum manual. Chilton's is good. I've never bought one, but have checked out the one at the library. I would have to go with Haynes for ease of use and having the most material you would use.

[denisond3]

fivegs: I just redid that crimped connection of the ground cable, where it bolts to a bracket that bolts to the firewall. I was having trouble with a temperature gauge that would read too high, though it wasnt overheating. I got a new generic battery ground cable, and took the several wires coming to the old ground connection, and soldered them, along with my new cable and the old ground cable, to the firewall. Now my temperature gauge reads correctly, and the fuel gauge is more accurate when it gets close to 'E'.
The other end of the original ground wire runs to one of the bolts that holds the transaxle to the engine.