Outer CV joint removal

[hot_sd]

Has anyone separated the outer CV joint from the driveshaft. My boot is split so I wanted to remove it in order to install a new boot but the clip that is supposed to be there (according to the factory manual) is not there.

Is it held by a hidden inner clip and does the joint have to be hammered off the shaft.

[Crvett69]

once the boot is split the joint is usually pretty well worn out. by time you buy a replacement boot, do all the work to replace it and buy the correct grease its better to just buy a rebuilt cv axle. they usually run about $50-$75 exchange. call around several places to get the best price

[91Caprice9c1]

Originally Posted by hot_sd

Has anyone separated the outer CV joint from the driveshaft. My boot is split so I wanted to remove it in order to install a new boot but the clip that is supposed to be there (according to the factory manual) is not there.

Is it held by a hidden inner clip and does the joint have to be hammered off the shaft.

Let me tell ya a little story. It was a '99 Nissan Altima, torn passenger side outter CV boot. So I thought, "well the joint isn't making any noise, lets save the customer some money," and just regrease and replace the boot, right?

On this Altima, the CV joint had to be slide-hammered off the axle, no snap rings E clips or C clips - just a press fit FWIW.

Job went like clockwork - not a hitch. Cleaned out the CV joint, removed all the old grease and grime, greased her back up good, threw it all together and everything was gravy. Until a couple thousand miles later that is, when the customer came back with the text-book "clickety clackety" around tight turns. Turned out it was the same axle I serviced!

I never re-greased&re-booted another CV joint. If the axle's got a torn boot, I consider it a core for a rebuilt unit - and nothing more. You just can't be sure how much crap got in there and roughed up the bearing surfaces.


-MechanicMatt

P.S. If you still aren't convinced to install a reman and you don't see any clips/snap rings, stick it in a vice and see what a hammer/slide hammer will do - it'll probably start budging with a few hard whacks.

[GM Line Rat]

They sell "Repair boots" at the auto stores and dont require you to remove the CV Axle at all to install them, their split down the middle and once they are installed, small bolts/nuts hold them together. BUT,The only reason I would install a "Repair" boot is if you damaged the CV boot yourself somehow, and the CV Joint is still in good shape and trouble free?......Otherwise, if the boot has just dryrotted, your far better off to in the long run to just buy a whole replacement CV Axle, use yours as a core swap and put a whole new CV Axle in.

[hot_sd]

Thanks for the replies guys – got it done this morning. The FSM is completely incorrect on how to do this. The correct way (as mentioned) is to hit the joint – there is a clip behind holding the joint in place. A few hard whacks with a brass hammer and it was out. The hammer does not look too healthy now poor thing .

Matt – I’m not sure why your Altima had problems after the service. If you completely disassembled the cage and ball assembly (I’m assuming it was a Rzeppa type joint) and did not see any damage or contamination then I’m puzzled why it should have given you problems unless it was already starting to die before the boot tore.

I had to replace the outer boot on the driver side of the Metro about a year ago. I did not take the outer joint apart since unlike the passenger side the shaft has the same diameter all the way across so I slid the boot from the inner joint. I replaced both boots then and also today since the driveshaft was out.

I believe I have done over 10,000 miles since then and have not had any problems with the shaft. Both this time and then based on the amount of grease in the joint and the tear I believe I noticed the problem very soon after it happened so the chance of damage is minimal plus I carefully inspected the joint. I’m sure you should be able to see if the joint ahs suffered damage or not.

But I agree - the price of even new units are getting so low it does not really seem to be worth the bother to inspect the joints and install the new boots.

[carpenter_jai]

I tried replacing my boots this summer. What a waste of time. I wish I had bought the rebuilt axles. The clips for the boots I bought require a special crimper, and nothing in my tool box could approximate it very well. I ended up farting around for hours. Not again.

CV boots wear out so fast on my metro. I have gone through 3 axles in 7 years. I imagine the extreme temperatures of Edmonton have something to do with it. I now have the habit of an early spring look at the boots, as that is the time of year they always seem to wear out.

By the way, cv grease contains lead and molybdenum, so no eating it ok?

Jai

[hot_sd]

It’s not too bad if you have the tools and know what to do – just like anything. I have both the crimping tool for the crimp style bands and also the tool for the band you pull and then bend the tabs. Also snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring around the inner joint. I have a cheap set of snap ring pliers from Harbor Freight.

I have owned my metro since it was one year old – the boot on the driver side went out end of last year (100K miles) and now the passenger side (105K).

On the subject of so called rebuilt axels – I really wonder that really means. I personally think that they disassemble the driveshaft and if they find no damage on the joints they simply clean up, put new boots and sell with a 1 year warranty. I doubt they replace the joints unless it seems like it is damaged.

Are you suggesting it is okay to consume other car fluids

[91Caprice9c1]

Originally Posted by hot_sd

I really wonder that really means. I personally think that they disassemble the driveshaft and if they find no damage on the joints they simply clean up, put new boots and sell with a 1 year warranty. I doubt they replace the joints unless it seems like it is damaged.

I've always been able to feel a difference from the axles I've turned in and the 'rebuilt' units I got back. The joints are much stiffer, and don't flop around like old, worn out ones do.

Of course, if I find a torn boot, I just wait for it to make noise before I do anything about it. So perhaps 'freshly torn' axles retain a lot of this new found stiffness. Although, a lot of the untorn axles I've pulled doing tranny swaps and wheel bearings still were not as stiff as the remans (normal wear&tear). At least with this method I have some way of verifying that I am getting what I am paying for (new CV joints).

I can see the counter-argument for this way of thinking, primarily preventive maintenance ("why not just replace the boot and save the joint?"), and secondarily a greasy mess ("why would you let it grease the wheel well and control arm for you?") - but in my humble opinion, bah humbug! - let it die and replace it with something fresh! Even if the joint is technically unharmed by road dust/desbris and loss of lubricant, it has still endured the wear and tear of daily driving. It's not worth the work after factoring in the risk of having to do half the work all over again.


-MechanicMatt

PS - I've got to work on this soap-box habit, eh? Sorry guys.

[Woodie83]

Originally Posted by 91Caprice9c1

PS - I've got to work on this soap-box habit, eh? Sorry guys.

Absolutely not, you know your stuff and are very helpful. I say carry on.

There is a train of thought that rebuilt CV joints are a bad idea completely. The original bearing surfaces are surface hardened, when they rebuild them they grind nice smooth surfaces which are no longer hardened, they'll never last like a new one. Of course this theory comes from a company that sells rebuilt axles with brand new joints, so who knows, but it does sound logical. Check out www.raxles.com

[carpenter_jai]

Are you suggesting it is okay to consume other car fluids

As far as I know, New Mexico is the only state that adds a bitter agent to glycol (rad fluid) to keep animals from licking up the sweet goo and then promptly dieing, so you can go to town on that stuff if you like too.

I guess my warning about the cv grease has to do with personal experience. I was driving to BC this spring and I had just finished tuning up my 95 and thought that everything was ready to go. Little did I know that I forgot to tighten the the knuckle split bolt. I drove 500 km with no trouble, I even pushed the car all the way to its max (160km/h or 100 MPH). At around 1 in the morning while making a tight turn, the ball joint separated from the control arm at 100km/h (60 MPH). Scary to say the least. I was just able to avoid rolling down the long ditch after loosing control, crossing the opposing lane and stopping barely on the shoulder. A tow truck got me on the pavement where with a little light held by that amazing tow truck driver, I was able to push the shaft back into the inner cv (the boot was torn to shit by being pulled so hard out of the cv). My hands were covered in grease, but I got it fixed and carried on the rest of the way with a bolt for the knuckle from the back of the tow truck. I now carry assorted spare bolts and nuts just in case.

Jai

[hot_sd]

Well, yes of course I’m sure that a joint that has 100K miles on it is not going to be in the same condition as a new joint. The way I see it is at that point you are dealing with a car that has 100K miles on it – if the joint can survive another 50K miles say then why bother with rebuilt parts. There is no doubt that if the joint has had a split boot for quite a while then it is probably not worth salvaging. Now having said that from an economic point of view new shafts getting to the price point where I would rather pay for a brand new shaft than a rebuilt one. There was a time when rebuilt parts made sense but now I’m not so sure. Having said that once you are at the point of replacing the boots it is only a short step from replacing the joint yourself but I’m not sure how easy new joints are to purchase.

Same with brake rotors – I picked up a new rotor for $12 a while back. It is probably cheap and will only last 2 or 3 years but at that price – no big deal.

I purchased a rebuilt alternator for the Metro a couple of years ago (bad bearing) and the other day I thought I heard scraping noises coming from it. Now would it have made sense for me to buy a good bearing and replace it myself, get a rebuilt alternator or a new one. I did not price out the options to see what would work best or make sense but if it is the alternator making the noise I must say I would be disappointed to see how long it has lasted. There is a lifetime warranty on the unit at least but I still would have to pull it out.

[hot_sd]

Originally Posted by carpenter_jai

As far as I know, New Mexico is the only state that adds a bitter agent to glycol (rad fluid) to keep animals from licking up the sweet goo and then promptly dieing, so you can go to town on that stuff if you like too.

I guess my warning about the cv grease has to do with personal experience. I was driving to BC this spring and I had just finished tuning up my 95 and thought that everything was ready to go. Little did I know that I forgot to tighten the the knuckle split bolt. I drove 500 km with no trouble, I even pushed the car all the way to its max (160km/h or 100 MPH). At around 1 in the morning while making a tight turn, the ball joint separated from the control arm at 100km/h (60 MPH). Scary to say the least. I was just able to avoid rolling down the long ditch after loosing control, crossing the opposing lane and stopping barely on the shoulder. A tow truck got me on the pavement where with a little light held by that amazing tow truck driver, I was able to push the shaft back into the inner cv (the boot was torn to shit by being pulled so hard out of the cv). My hands were covered in grease, but I got it fixed and carried on the rest of the way with a bolt for the knuckle from the back of the tow truck. I now carry assorted spare bolts and nuts just in case.

Jai

Glad to hear nothing more serious happened due to that. I normally make it a point to doublecheck everything once I have tighened all the bolts - but even with all that you can end up forgetting something.