Thor and his friend are off their rockers: project 1g RX7, comments?

[Thor06]

*Cliff notes at the bottom, but there is some really interesting info in here I think everyone could enjoy*

Hey guys, I just thought I would let ya'll know about the crazy shit we have in store for his car. First off, its a 1985 RX7 GSL SE so that means it has the NT 13b, 5 speed, LSD, etc. Its a pretty good car and is quick feeling, but he wants more.

We were going to just rebuild the 13b NT style for it with a wicked ass port. After talking to Lucky about that, we decided to explore our other options because of how much it would cost vs how much power we could get out of it. We looked into a few different combos including a few V8 swaps, a turbo rotary, and the one that I am 97% sure is the one we are going to follow through on.

The turbo rotary was cut down because A) its rated at a whopping 20 more hp that his current more (150 to 170) and its a turbo rotary so naturally we are worried about keeping those apex seals there.

As for V8 swaps we considered a LS1, carbed 327 or 350, LT1, L98, crustang 5.0, and maybe a couple others. All had their ups and downs, but when it comes down to it, getting a decent motor and tranny is going to be quite a bit i.e. a T56 tranny (6 speed from a camaro), LS1, harness, and ECU is going to be around $4000. Even then, once we get the motor, we gotta shoe horn that V8 into it and on top of that its got to be worked on eventually. I think hes still juggling this idea around a little bit but I dont see it going through.

Now for the way Thor thinks its going to go is going to be all sorts of fun . I was thinking about his project and all 17,000 of my spare parts. Ya know guys, I have all the 4g63 stuff he could need to to get the motor in it besides the tranny, ECU, and turbo. If we could get my spare shit into his car it would help both of us, me so I dont have to deal with shipping, dead beat buyers, etc. and him because it would most likely be the cheapest and easiest to work on.

But how could we get a 4g63 in a RWD car? Drawing off previous knowledge, I know there was a 6 bolt 4g6x motor with RWD in IIRC the 82-89 Mighty Max and D50 pickups. Direct bolt on RWD tranny, the only problem I would think its ability to take power, it was built for a low 100 hp NT motor, what would it do with 300+ ftlbs of torque? Not something I would trust. So what about the Starion? Thats a turbo RWD car so that tranny should hold up just fine, could that go in there? I looked on eBay and the bolt patterns looked the same so I decided to do some research. After some google searching I found a BOMB ass website dedicated to RWD 4g63's, particularly in Starions. Heres what Thor found out.

Mitsu did a "wide block" and a "narrow block" setup on their I4 engines. What this refers to is the longitudinal distance between the tranny bolt holes on the block, other than that they are the same motor. All DSM motors are narrow block, however there were some wide block 4g63's put in other vehicles. As I understand, automatic Mighty Max and D50 pickups from like 82-89 had a 2.0 wideblock 4g63. Now, the turbo Starion/Conquests use the 4g54 which is also a wideblock engine. Does anyone see where I am going with this?

If we can get lucky and track down a 82-89 D50 or Mighty Max we can take the block, put in my turbo internals and head, then bolt the bitch up to a turbo Starion tranny, then BAM! Turbo 4g63 RWD '85 RX7. We're going to need to get a Starion drive shaft and rear end as well, then I bet we'll have to cut down the driveshaft but I think it'll be ok. The Starion rear end has an LSD and is a really strong unit too so we wont have to worry about the drive train holding together.

It will start off pretty much stock as hell. Eventually it will end up with a b16g or an e16g, FMIC, custom exhaust/IC pipes, probably some cams, decent clutch, and all other bolt ons necessary for like 325ish hp. This isnt a progress thread yet, but I would like your comments!

Cliff notes for Brian:
-My buddy wants a fast 1g RX7
-Knocked a turbo rotary and V8 swaps off the idea list for various reasons
-Found a bomb ass and uber informative website
-Going to put a 2.0 4g63 with Starion tranny, drive shaft, and rear end into the RX7
-Thor is fucking pumped

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by Thor06

Cliff notes for Brian:
-My buddy wants a fast 1g RX7
-Knocked a turbo rotary and V8 swaps off the idea list for various reasons
-Found a bomb ass and uber informative website
-Going to put a 2.0 4g63 with Starion tranny, drive shaft, and rear end into the RX7
-Thor is fucking pumped

I'm glad to know everybody thinks of me when they type something longer than the book, see spot run.

[steviek]

WOW I have to see pictures of this swap. This will blow my mind. It reminds me kinda of this thing I saw on streetfire where this black dude had this mustang with type r stickers on it. And the guy went up and started asking him about the guys car but the dude knew nothing and basically ended up telling him he had a rotary in there. Woulda been hella funny if that guy had popped open the hood and actually had a rotary turbo with a stock intercooler in there. But for you it will be the opposite way but still funny as hell.

[SilvrEclipse]

haha that video was great.

This will be a great project, cant wait to see it when it gets done. Now this is one of thors friends so we probably wont see anything for about 2 years.

[Killa]

I saw a tv series, 2g rx7 with ls1 or ls2 swap, still loose to the civic.

[Thor06]

Thanks guys! I am so unbelievably intrigued by my new found knowledge that when Mike and I begin his hunt for the wide block 2.0, I am going to keep my eye out for a wide block 4g6x as well, they made wide block 4g63's and 4g64's back in the day. I dont think I will make the Talon go RWD, but I will keep the motor for a rainy day . If it should happen that I blow my current motor, serious thought would definately be put towards making it RWD. It would suck, I know I would lose the amazingness of AWD but I would get a unique ass whip and some fun sideways action instead!

I dont know 100% if Mike will go through with this. I think it will if he can sell his other car and hold down a steady job he shouldnt have much problem at all, but if he keeps juggling jobs like he has been he just wont have the funds to do it. No matter what though, Thor is going to start hunting down a wide block 2.0 or 2.4 and a turbo starquest tranny, driveshaft, and rear end . Then if for some strange reason a completely bare and half ways decent 1ga AWD shell should make itself known for next to nothing, Thor will end up with two DSM projects: the straight line street terror known as the Purple People Eater and the side-fuckin-ways pavement pounder now officially dubbed Project X.

[cantgo2fast]

That would be so nasty where do you guys live? Im fantasatic at finding cars in fact i know of a mighty max that i might be able to hunt down... either way this project sounds sick as hell

[defiancy]

While I have to say that is cool. Why is a V8 swap out? Yeah an LS1 swap would be pricey. But why not buy a ford 351w? You can buy a long block crate motor for like 1500. Saying V8s are expensive motors is silly.

But either way, sounds interesting.

[cantgo2fast]

I think he means the fabrication and complimentary parts that have to go along with a v8. I would think the V8 would just throw your weight distribution off the charts.

[gthompson97]

And this website dedicated to RWD 4g63's is.........

[defiancy]

Originally Posted by cantgo2fast

I think he means the fabrication and complimentary parts that have to go along with a v8. I would think the V8 would just throw your weight distribution off the charts.

I don't know if that would matter(Weight distribution). Afterall you can direct drop the 351w into a Mazda 4 cylinder pickup.

But I agree fabrication may play a part in that. But I would think there would be more fabrication in taking a AWD motor and putting in a RWD car, than putting a RWD motor into a RWD car.

[1g90gsx]

my opinion:

as a friend of mine did a fd ls1 swap two years ago i understand all the hard work and respect everything about what he did.i have been working on imports for allmost fourteen years and there is one thing i cant stand is a domestic engine in an import!the rotary engine it is an amazing piece of automotive engineering.i have worked on a few over the years but im amazed at how much power they can make from such a small power plant.i think the rx7 and the rotory engine should stay together,like filling in an oreo cookie!this is my opinion and i respect others work or ideas even though i dont agree.

landry

[defiancy]

Originally Posted by 1g90gsx

my opinion:
as a friend of mine did a fd ls1 swap two years ago i understand all the hard work and respect everything about what he did.i have been working on imports for allmost fourteen years and there is one thing i cant stand is a domestic engine in an import!the rotary engine it is an amazing piece of automotive engineering.i have worked on a few over the years but im amazed at how much power they can make from such a small power plant.i think the rx7 and the rotory engine should stay together,like filling in an oreo cookie!this is my opinion and i respect others work or ideas even though i dont agree.
landry

I think more in the case of Thor he is looking to make big power cheap. What I gather he is trying to do is make that car as fast as possible for as cheap as possible. And while the Rx7's rotary engine is a feat of engineering, it's not the most reliable motor and it's fairly expensive to build into a fast motor.

[vanilla gorilla]

Ah, man. Your talking about dealing with all of this expensive and hard to find parts. F that! If it was me: Chevy V8 swap FTW. You can find a 350 everywhere and stinky cheap. Get a 350 (maybe freshen it up) leave it stock that will be all you need. Carburated FTW....easy, Forget fuel injection and ECU's and all that wiring crap. And transmission....Turbo 350. Never go wrong with the Turbo 350.

1. Stock carburated chevy 350
2. Turbo 350 tranny

Cheap and readily available. The way to go IMO

[Thor06]

Garrett: Search n00b! The previously referred to dope-ass website is www.projectzerog.com.

Yeah, I know the rotary is an amazing engine, its such a cool concept! Only things that bug me is the weird torque curve and those pesky apex seals. Once this swap is done we dont want to have to worry about a used motor throwing apex seals and rebuilding a rotary is aweful expensive.

As for the V8 swaps, the weight distribution isnt too bad depending on what motor you get. The LS1 is an aluminum block/aluminum head set up and considering the rotary engine is basically a big ass chuck of iron, I hear that the LS1 only weighs something like 40 lbs more. However, if we just got a generic carb'd 350 that would probably have an iron block and I think iron heads so that would mess the weight distribution up bad. Thats kinda why we decided against a non LS1 swap, but also because another kid from our graduating class just finished his 350 to 1g RX7 swap. If we can find a decent LS1, tranny, wiring harness, and ECU around our area then we will consider it, but I have a feeling around our area the cheapest we will be able to find is nothing short of rediculous.

And what talk about a Ford motor and then about a turbo 350? Is you two on 'shine?! Nah, I am just not a fan of Ford and arent turbo 350's a 4 speed automatic? Thats one thing about this swap, its gotta be a manual.

As for the RWD 4g63 parts, it shouldnt be too hard or expensive to find. Decent turbo Starquest trannies can be had for <$200-$250 and I couldnt find any prices on rear ends or drive shafts but I cant imagine it could be that bad. The only thing I am worried about finding is a wide block G63B (4g63). I bet we are going to have to scour junk yards all over MN and maybe into Wisconsin and North Dakota to find one. If it comes down to it, we might have to just buy a running 82-89 2.0 truck to donate its motor, but that shouldnt be too bad considering they are most likely going to be 20-25 years old. All the other stuff is in my garage right now. Another thing is that I already know the 4g63 pretty good and all he has to do is buy a socketed EPROM and we can use my DSMlink to tune it. Plus when we get done we will have a 4g63t/Starion/RX7 hybrid!!! What could be cooler than that?

Anyway, the hunt for a wideblock 2.0 or 2.4 continues...