d16a1 into an 87 civic si recap

[honda87hatch]

ok so ive decided to go with the d16a1 swap i was looking onine and there are alot of aftermarket parts for this motor to pum it up i even ound a kit that upgrades it for more hp any way from what i understand this is what i need to do correct me if im wrong and yes i know there are alot of threads about this i have read thwm all i am just recapping in caes i misuvderstood something i want to use an 88-89 teg

d16 motor and transaxle
do i need the spindles or do i need the whole front end
i need to change one wire which wire is that
this year should have electric ignition
and my other question will my exaust down tube bolt up to this manifold or should i expet to hae it redone
modified motor mount i assume i will be able to tell which one when i have the engine sitting in the bay on a hoist and i will be able to tell how to modify it

[1gcvcb18]

Originally Posted by honda87hatch

ok so ive decided to go with the d16a1 swap i was looking onine and there are alot of aftermarket parts for this motor to pum it up i even ound a kit that upgrades it for more hp any way from what i understand this is what i need to do correct me if im wrong and yes i know there are alot of threads about this i have read thwm all i am just recapping in caes i misuvderstood something i want to use an 88-89 teg

d16 motor and transaxle
do i need the spindles or do i need the whole front end
i need to change one wire which wire is that
this year should have electric ignition
and my other question will my exaust down tube bolt up to this manifold or should i expet to hae it redone
modified motor mount i assume i will be able to tell which one when i have the engine sitting in the bay on a hoist and i will be able to tell how to modify it

It's best to buy the whole car and swap everything, get a 88-89 teg so you will have electronic advanced ignition.

[lxndr]

Originally Posted by 1gcvcb18

It's best to buy the whole car and swap everything, get a 88-89 teg so you will have electronic advanced ignition.

I agree

Although there is alot more wiring to be done with the 88-89 motor. The one wire swap is only for the 86-87 motors.

[honda87hatch]

what else would need to be wired i really dont want to get a whole new car i plan on just get the engine and trany used and stripping it to the block and rebuilding it with every perf part i can find whis is quite a bit i dont want turbo it but i do want to run nos i want a straitliner all the rest of the parts i was going to buy new like header intake all new front suspension parts pretty much ev erything new but the block the head core and the tranny case all new internals so is there a list you think if its not to much truoble i could ask for i would really appreciate it thank y ou

[lxndr]

You want an '86-'87 Integra swap. This is a relatively simple swap and will meet your requirements listed above.

The 88-'89 Integra swap requires a VSS (vehicle speed sensor), ELD (electronic load detector), wiring in the electronic advance distributor, and a different ECU to run these electronics. If you don't pick up a parts car then these are all parts that you will need to track down along with the appropriate wiring.

The wiring is a little more difficult for the 88-89 motors and if you've never swapped a motor and are unfamiliar with how to read a wiring diagram, this swap should be avoided. I've seen several people attempt this as their first swap, I've also seen several unfinished projects for sale.

About 80% of the stock SI wiring will come close to the 88-89 Integra wiring. You will be adding about 10-15 wires and re-pinning about 10 wires in order to run the ECU, ELD, VSS and distributor.

[honda87hatch]

ok so then what is the advantage of haveing the electronic advance distibutor as apposed to the 87 is it really a big difference and is that the only thing better about the 88-89

[lxndr]

If you're not planning to do any serious engine modifications, the 86-87 D16A1 will be a good choice since this is a relatively easy swap.

The advantage of the 88-89 D16A1 is the electronic advance distributor. This allows for a more reliable spark which will be needed if you plan to do any major modifications to the motor. Also once you have the car wired for an 88-89 motor, you can buy an OBD1 distributor and an OBD1 adapter harness for the ECU. This allows you to fine tune your fuel management by running a chipped or aftermarket OBD1 ECU which is essential when running a turbo.

[Christ]

I think, if I remember correctly, '86-'87 teg is for the first gen CRX/third gen civic, and '88-'89 teg is direct swap for the 4th/2nd gen Civic/CRX... might be wrong there.. but I don't think so. I know the browntop 'teg motor has less power, and directly swaps w/o tranny or mount change.

BTW, there is only one engine mount, the other three connect to the tranny.

[lxndr]

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

I think, if I remember correctly, '86-'87 teg is for the first gen CRX/third gen civic, and '88-'89 teg is direct swap for the 4th/2nd gen Civic/CRX... might be wrong there.. but I don't think so. I know the browntop 'teg motor has less power, and directly swaps w/o tranny or mount change.

BTW, there is only one engine mount, the other three connect to the tranny.

Yes, you are wrong.


The '86-'87 D16A1 motor is the easiest swap into a 1G/3G SI since the wiring is nearly identical to the Integra wiring.

The '88-'89 D16A1 will only directly swap into a 1G/3G but the wiring is a more involved due to the electronic advance distributor, VSS and ELD.

The '88-'91 "Civic ZC" is the only DOHC D-series motor that will swap directly into a 2G/4G. This motor swap does not require swapping the tranny. Most people confuse this motor with the D16A1 since it is very similar in design, and most people don't realize that a 1G/3G is a completely different car than a 2G/4G.

The browntop D16A1 motor has 5 less HP than the blacktop D16A1 motor.

With ALL D16A1 swaps into a 1G/3G, you will need to swap the tranny, axles, knuckles, shift linkage, etc. The only motor that bolts up the the stock 1G/3G tranny is a 1G/3G motor.

There is one motor mount and two tranny mounts. The stock Civic/CRX motor mount needs to be notched in order to clear the D16A1 timing cover. You can not use the D16A1 motor mount but you need to use the D16A1 tranny mounts.


Just thought I'd clear up any confusion.

[Christ]

Thanks for that, will need all that info when I do my A1 swap in the '85 w/ the turbo... glad to know that someone had the correct info.

Now... where can I find a set of valves cheap for the A1? it's a browntop, but the blacktop ones are the same.

[1gcvcb18]

Originally Posted by lxndr

Yes, you are wrong.
The '88-'89 D16A1 will only directly swap into a 1G/3G but the wiring is a more involved due to the electronic advance distributor, VSS and ELD.

I have a 87 D16A1 swap in my 84 3 gen civic it was carbed from the factory and i made it fuel injected. I am using 87 stock teg wiring harness that came with vacumm advance dizzy and swaped that out to a 88-89 dizzy that is electronic advanced and used a 90-91 stock teg ecu. Didn't connect the ELD to the ecu and have no codes, it is a simple thing to swap out just add the extra wires for the 88-89 dizzy to the stock 87 teg harness. Have 100 miles on the car and have not had a ELD code. If you need any help on converting to electronic advance i have a tutorial that explains just how this can be done. You can use any OBd0 ecu, pm6 is the best for this kind of engine since you can chip it.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by 1gcvcb18

You can use any OBd0 ecu, pm6 is the best for this kind of engine since you can chip it.

That makes no sense at all... first off, you can chip any ECU, second off, the ECU that you're talking about (PM6) has two diff types... the PM6 from 88-89 uses an on-die rom image, meaning you have to utilize open loop control mode to make a chip work, then program the chip, and the ECU will skip it's own memory to run the program on the chip... this requires a daughterboard and soldering to the CPU.. not an easy task.

the 90-91 PM6 ECU just requires taking off the old rom chip, and soldering in a socket, then putting in a eeprom (Electronically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory) chip of the same lead count, and programming it.. the only difference in these methods is that the first one requires a second circuit board be placed in the ECU case, to hold the socket for the new ROM.

On to my first statement.

Originally Posted by Dr0pZ0n3

first off, you can chip any ECU

This is entirely true, any honda ECU can be chipped to work w/ a diff program than what was originally intended for it. you can turn a PM5 or PM8 into a PR4 if you wanted to, you'd just have to add the programming. (and the wiring, obviously)

There was actually a guy I was talking to a while back that had used a GM ECU on his accord, b/c it had better maps... the ECU doesn't HAVE TO be mated to the car... it just helps if you don't know ECU tuning.