BMW Models?

[jcutner]

Hey there, first time poster on these forums...

Quick question about BMW models.

Maybe I'm just not seeing them, but why is there a lack of recent BMW models? I've love to build pretty much any BMW made in the last ten years up to now...

I guess there isn't much demand? I thought maybe Revell Germany would get on this, at least for their Skill Level 3+ models.

[freakray]

Probably lack of demand for the models and also a licensing issue.

[360spider]

There are very few, Z8 (and now Alpina too), E36 in various forms, Z3, Z3 (M) Coupe, and that is pretty much it from the recent ones. Older models are better represented, though not comprehensive selection either.

[mike@af]

...and the few that exist are very difficult to find.

[01L2Cobra]

Originally Posted by GTmike400

...and the few that exist are very difficult to find.

There are a lot of them out there but they are difficult to find in hobby shops but if you take a look on ebay there are always a few on there. Sadly Tamiya has discontinued the 320i and the 635CSI. Most of the rest of the BMW models you find aren’t that great like the Dragon E36 M3.

[BattleWagon]

Originally Posted by freakray

Probably lack of demand for the models and also a licensing issue.

I can't imagine that lack of demand is a problem when it comes to BMW model kits. You're talking about one of the landmark sporting automotive brands - the '87-'91 E30 M3 alone is a major cult car, and is OFTEN rated in the top ten cars of all time by magazines, websites, etc.

If one of the kit companies wanted to knock out a series of quality BMW kits, they could make a killing on the various M3 / M5 / M6 / M1's (I know there are M1 kits, but they seem to suck, OOB), as well as other somewhat-cult cars like the 5er Tourings, E30 3er's, etc.

I have to guess the reason there aren't many BMW is kit is all about licensing.

[MPWR]

I dunno, BMW really seems no worse represented than most marques.

Here are just the Bimmer kits I have (I know there are others, too):

M1 road version
M1 Procar
320i
Z1
Z3
Z3 M
E30 M3 (crappy kit!)
E34 M5
E36 M3 'lightweight'
E36 M3 24h Nurburgring
E36 318 is BTCC
635CSi Gr.A Spa
M635
850i
Nazca M12 (thanks Gio!)

Well over a dozen- not bad, really. There are probably about the same number of Mercedes kits made, and far fewer Audis. Sure there are more Ferraris (I think- but then I've never counted), and Nissans, Toyotas and Hondas. But when has BMW ever been as popular as these other makes?

Yeah, I would love a good full engine 2002, and a good E30 M3 (and McLaren F1)- and I do kinda doubt I'll see them. But meanwhile, there are a healthy number of decent Bimmer kits out there. And there are some great Porsche kits out there, too....

[BattleWagon]

I have seen most of the kits you're talking about:

M1 road version - Revell? Don't like it.
M1 Procar - Revell? Don't like it.
320i - Tamiya? Good kit.
Z3 - Tamiya? Good kit.
Z3 M - Not sure on this one - Tamiya?
E30 M3 (crappy kit!) - Fujimi? Terrible.
E34 M5 - Fujimi? Terrible.
E36 M3 'lightweight' - Dragon? Not bad.
E36 M3 24h Nurburgring - Dragon? Not bad.
E36 318 is BTCC - Dragon? Not bad.
635CSi Gr.A Spa - Tamiya? Nice kit.
M635 - Tamiya? Nice kit.
850i - Revell? Ugly.
Nazca M12 (thanks Gio!) - Never seen this one.

From the kits you mentioned, that's 7 reasonably good kits out of 12.

When it comes to BMW kits, currently, you're basically looking at:

- Crappy M1 kits
- Crappy 8-series kit
- Terrible E30 kits
- Terrible E34 kits
- Fair E36 kits
- Good E24 635CSi / M635 kits
- Good E21 320i kits
- Good Z3 kits

As a BMW fanatic, that is a VERY poor selection of good kits. I really am not excited by the Z3, so that leaves me with the E24 kits (nice but not a THRILLING car) and the E21 kits (also nice but not THRILLING either).

I would be VERY excited to see nice E30 kits - standard E30s AND the M3 - and nice E46 M3 kits - and nice E34 M5 + Touring (or M5 Touring...) kits - plus nice M1 kits. For a start, anyway.

Fact is, the selection of NICE BMW kits is SORELY lacking in excitement.

There are a number of nice Porsche kits ('88 Turbo, GT1, GT2, GT3, 935, 956, 959, 962, 996, etc).

And I have to argue with you - BMW has ALWAYS been at LEAST as popular as Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, Audi, and Ferrari --- for the most part. Ferrari is obviously in a league of its own, but when it comes to sporting cars, how can you say that the 2002 Turbo, E30 M3, E30 318is, E28 M5, E34 M5, E39 M5, E60 M5, E46 M3 and M1 are not really popular cars... ?

I think a major reason why BMW's (and other German cars) are not really well-represented is that the kit manufacturers are mostly Japanese. All of the Japanese car manufacturers are well-represented in model kits. Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are definitely far and few between. There are a couple VW kits. And there are a lot of European brands that are basically non-existent in plastic models - Saab, for example.

It's a damn shame. I'd LOVE to see some nice kits based on European cult cars.

[MPWR]

Are they really that popular?

When was the last time you saw a BMW being built here? When was the time before that?

OK, as you mentioned a number of the availible BMW kits are not top tier quality wise. If that's what's keeping people from building them, when was the last time you saw someone building a 911 here? There are plenty of great Porsche kits. The Fujimi Cayman is even a new Porsche, and a good kit. I don't know that we've seen more than a half dozen.

AF is hardly the throbbing pulse of the model car building world, but it's probably a decent representation of what the international community may be building. Alot of people may like them, but 'non-exotic' Euro cars are really pretty rare. And if you don't see them built often here, then where?

They're cool, but not really that popular. People like seeing them, but they don't build them (and buy them). And so the market doesn't really support new kits.

[BattleWagon]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Are they really that popular?

When was the last time you saw a BMW being built here? When was the time before that?

Yes, I'd say they are - and they would certainly become more popular among modellers, IMO, if good kits were available. As an example, I was never interested in a Honda S800, but when I saw the Tamiya kits and built two of 'em, I really grew to like the 1/1 car and have done some reading up on the history.

I'd bet that a lot of people on this forum don't post WIP threads. From my short time on this forum, the talented modellers like to post WIP threads, but I -know- there are guys out there that are at a more novice level that are building kits and not posting any WIP threads --- why post your average / below-average WIP pics? Everyone likes to see the AWESOME models that guys are building.

This is just a debate - no one's going to suddenly start manufacturing '70's-'90's era high-quality Euro kits as a result of seeing this thread, of course --- but my feeling is that the demand would be there if the kits were offered. My humble 2 cents.

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by BattleWagon

This is just a debate - no one's going to suddenly start manufacturing '70's-'90's era high-quality Euro kits as a result of seeing this thread, of course --- but my feeling is that the demand would be there if the kits were offered. My humble 2 cents.

Absolutely right- but hopefully it's also just a friendly debate.

But I'm not convinced that Bimmers make popular subjects as kits, and I'm not convinced that great quality kits build interest in cars.

You mentioned the S800- a great example. What a cool little kit! Terrific quality, full engine, funky subject. Haven't seen any built, though. Tamiya has been reissuing a number of really great kits recently- the Alpine A110, Alfa GTA, Citroen 2CV, Fiat 500 & 695, and the S800 have all been repoped in the last two years. Every one of them is a truely top quality kit, full engine, of a cult classic car. But none get built here! (OK, there are in fact two 695s in progress now, and there will likely be two more in a month or two). There have been one or less of each of the others. They're just not popular.

I'd bet that a lot of people on this forum don't post WIP threads. From my short time on this forum, the talented modellers like to post WIP threads, but I -know- there are guys out there that are at a more novice level that are building kits and not posting any WIP threads --- why post your average / below-average WIP pics? Everyone likes to see the AWESOME models that guys are building.

This may or may not be true- but even if it is it likely doesn't skew the proportions. Maybe for each Porsche we see here, other members are building two more and not showing them. But that also means for each Nissan we see, members are also building two more of them and not showing them. There's really no reason to believe members here are less likely to show a mediocre BMW than a mediocre Ferrari.

But meanwhile, Tamiya has put out a bunch of high quality 70's Euro kits- and no one seems to have cared. So why would they care about another Bimmer?

[BattleWagon]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Absolutely right- but hopefully it's also just a friendly debate.

But I'm not convinced that Bimmers make popular subjects as kits, and I'm not convinced that great quality kits build interest in cars.

You mentioned the S800- a great example. What a cool little kit! Terrific quality, full engine, funky subject. Haven't seen any built, though. Tamiya has been reissuing a number of really great kits recently- the Alpine A110, Alfa GTA, Citroen 2CV, Fiat 500 & 695, and the S800 have all been repoped in the last two years. Every one of them is a truely top quality kit, full engine, of a cult classic car. But none get built here! (OK, there are in fact two 695s in progress now, and there will likely be two more in a month or two). There have been one or less of each of the others. They're just not popular.


This may or may not be true- but even if it is it likely doesn't skew the proportions. Maybe for each Porsche we see here, other members are building two more and not showing them. But that also means for each Nissan we see, members are also building two more of them and not showing them. There's really no reason to believe members here are less likely to show a mediocre BMW than a mediocre Ferrari.

But meanwhile, Tamiya has put out a bunch of high quality 70's Euro kits- and no one seems to have cared. So why would they care about another Bimmer?

Absolutely yes, it's a friendly debate

I haven't built any BMW kits other than the Tamiya 635CSi variants and a Dragon E36 318Ti --- why? Because I hate spending money on poorly-made kits. I did buy a Fujimi E30 325i, and regretted it the moment it arrived and I opened it up. I have owned a couple 1/1 E30's (um, eight, actually - I currently have an E30 318is and E30 M3), and am sorely disappointed that I can't find a good E30 kit. Same goes for the E46 M3 - I'd love to build a nice 1/24 version of my 1/1 car. Same for the E34 Touring. If somebody made nice BMW kits, I'd have an entire bookshelf stacked full of them (many duplicates). But maybe that's just me... ? I don't think so, though.

About the WIP threads, you're right. My point was that just because we're not seeing WIP threads doesn't mean the kits aren't being bought and built in quantity.

And for the record, I have been happy to see all of the nice '70's-era and Euro kits by Tamiya, and have bought MANY of them. I much prefer them to building the standard 350Z or another Modena. BMW's or not, I want to see the good stuff - give me a 2002 Turbo. How 'bout a good Mk1 VW GTi - Karmann Ghia - Opel Manta - 300SL Gullwing - 550 Spyder - Starion Turbo - Lambo Miura - Sunbeam Tiger - Maserati Merak or Sebring or Mistral - the list goes on. There have been a lot of really cool cars over the years that haven't been addressed well in kits.

BMW's are just the most important ones

We'll continue this over a beer at some point, what d'you say?

[drunken monkey]

I actually like the bad kits; makes it much more worthwhile and satisfying sorting out the flaws.
Sometimes, a "perfect" modern kit ends up being an exercise in execution rather than a challenge.
Incidentally, of the cars you mention I have kits of the karmann ghia (part of the tamiya re-issues), 300SL, miura (hasegawa's is pretty damned good), Merak (ancient curbside/motorised airfix kit).

The problem I see with BMW kits is that in the real world, the car is just so common.
As much as I would like to have a real M3 CSL in my garage, if there was a scale kit, it wouldn't be on top of my to buy list.

Have you looked at fujimi's enthusiast bmw kits?
There's also the point that if you really want to build a certain car, you can always have a go at making it from scratch.

[mike@af]

I'm wanting to build a model of my car too. But trying to track down the Dragon E36 M3 kit is rather difficult. I bought the Dragon PIAA E36 when I had the chance just in case, but thats a lot of scratch building (from race to street). I also dont want it curbside, so I have to scavenge the motor from the 325i kit. It sucks, but its something we have to deal with.

I don't like the challenge of finding, I like the challenge of building. So as long as the proportions are correct I don't care about the quality.

[jano11]

A quick glimpse on ebay, et voila:

M3:
http://cgi.ebay.at/Dragon-BMW-M3-800...QQcmdZViewItem

A few 316i's:
http://cgi.ebay.at/BMW-316i-316-i-co...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.at/BMW-316i-COMPACT-...QQcmdZViewItem

It's not that difficult to find them.