Claim: everything is relative.

[MonsterBengt]

Challenge me. opcorn:

[00accord44]

Thats a very broad statement. I'd love to attempt to combat you, but I don't even know where to begin

[MonsterBengt]

It is.

Ok: if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, it doesn't make any sound. Why? Since existence is only in the eye of the beholder. Existance is a relation between two objects, and life is motion, nothing more. Motion is beholding and accomprehension, and that is always relative, since there are more than zero obejcts.

If there were no subjectivity, there would be no relativeness.

State a simple rule or claim that speaks against my claim if you like.

[Jay!]

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

Claim: everything is relative.

Your absolute crates a paradox. Everything is relatively relative. Some things more than others.

[drunken monkey]

It also depends on your understanding and definitions of related.

In your tree example, it depends on what you (or who-ever's job it is to define such things) define as sound. If you define sound as the translated messages that we get from our brains having processed the vibrations that our ears received having been affected by the energy release of said tree falling down; then yes, if no one with ears (or working ones for that matter) is affected by the tree falling down, then no noise is made. That doesn't change the fact that the energy is still released and that air is still vibrating. The thing that causes the "noise" we hear is still present.

Just because you can't see or hear the cat in the box doesn't mean it isn't there.
If no one is there to see the trees, do they suddenly stop existing?

Time to read more Heidegger methinks.

[MonsterBengt]

Originally Posted by Jay!

Your absolute crates a paradox. Everything is relatively relative. Some things more than others.

Appreciation of value, size and quantity is a relative process, and a very much human process.

[ericn1300]

wow a new theory of relativity, and i really like the simplicity of it. no math or physics, no proofs just faith. got any ideas on the unified field theory too Einstein?

[00accord44]

Everything experienced by the conscious mind can be explained as relative, but what is your account of the unconscious and subconscious? Dreams are produced by the brain's analysis of internal and external factors expressed in a variety of ways often misunderstood or not understood through conscious thinking. Cues from the conscious external environment may be present but they are mixed with internal issues/concerns/beliefs so how can you define dreams as relative if they are perhaps the only experience entirely self-generated and self-contained?

[MonsterBengt]

Originally Posted by 00accord44

Everything experienced by the conscious mind can be explained as relative, but what is your account of the unconscious and subconscious? Dreams are produced by the brain's analysis of internal and external factors expressed in a variety of ways often misunderstood or not understood through conscious thinking. Cues from the conscious external environment may be present but they are mixed with internal issues/concerns/beliefs so how can you define dreams as relative if they are perhaps the only experience entirely self-generated and self-contained?

First of all, the line between dream and reality is a humanly drawn line, where you assume one consciousness over another as reality. No outside rules of reality speaks for that decision, much because humans are alive, making us capable of processes, which this made up problem is. Dead things don't.

Even using consciousness over unconsciousness in this discussing is easily countered with this: prove that you are awake.

Originally Posted by ericn1300

wow a new theory of relativity, and i really like the simplicity of it. no math or physics, no proofs just faith. got any ideas on the unified field theory too Einstein?

That is another type of theory, which I have not read up on. Would you like me to, just to make you happy?

If you absolutely want a proposition of my claims, I could think of one.

Originally Posted by ericn1300

no proofs just faith.

I want you to prove something, right here, right now. Anything. Give me positive proof of something.

[00accord44]

As "living" beings none of us can prove that there is anything other than what we know, which is relative to the world around us. Within the enormous bounds of your claim, there is no possible way to 'prove' anything. The only way we could confirm that this life ever existed is to have it taken away. If this perceived reality truly exists then it will continue on in our absence. You know any dead guys we can talk to?

[MonsterBengt]

Originally Posted by 00accord44

As "living" beings none of us can prove that there is anything other than what we know, which is relative to the world around us. Within the enormous bounds of your claim, there is no possible way to 'prove' anything. The only way we could confirm that this life ever existed is to have it taken away. If this perceived reality truly exists then it will continue on in our absence. You know any dead guys we can talk to?

When a living being (as in anything moving) try to prove anything, it has failed. A dead guy actually isn't dead btw. He's still existing and relative. The closest a human would get to absolutely positive info, is asking vacuum for answers.

[MonsterBengt]

This section is officially on its deathbed.