Swapped S30, S130, or Z31's?

[rudypoochris]

Any one here got one? If so tell us about it?

I have a 1972 with a Ford 302.

[stprasinz]

280zx 1979 2+2 complete turbo swap(inc rear diff)
removed 280 swap from 79 transplanted into 1983 280zx
1987 300zx turbo swap (inc working electronic suspension)
1986 rs 2.8 mpfi camaro 350 swap
1993 series 1 supercharger swap (Bonneville)
And I have done a few honda swaps ie ls, b16, ls-v-tec, boost etc
almost all my swaps are bolt ins.... most included wiring harnesses... (excepts camaro.. fuel injection delete to carb)
All were my own vehicles excluding the hondas

Thats off the top of my head probably missed a few

[SilentNIght1647]

I've got a 280ZX with a L31T in it, but the really wild swaps are all at HybridZ.org check them out you wont be dissapointed.

[Hodo]

This forum is not so hot on non-nissan swaps. We are kinda elitist that way. Its nothing against you or your car. But we generally like leaving the Zs Nissan. Not hybrids.

I personally love V8s, and see no point in looking outside of Nissan/Datsun for power. But hey to each his/her own.

And yes Hybrid Z is a great forum for bastard child Zs.

[rudypoochris]

Thats respectable. I simply wanted my Z to perform in a certain way and there were simply no Nissan engines available to support that kind of handling and power in my budget. Likewise there are heavy limitations on the Nissan engines that I couldn't afford as well which would make them uimpractical for the task. I like keeping brand fidelity at times, but it would have been against all odds in this case. Nice Z32 btw.

[Hodo]

I have to admit building a Nissan V8 is a bit different than a domestic engine. I come from the school of the 454ci V8.... ah memories. But hey I perfer the high reving fuel injected surprise of a import V8. Not to mention I have found in my studies and work on them most Japanese V8s are just built stronger than the domestic counter parts. It is kinda sad, they couldnt even build a V8 until we showed them. And now, they build them better.

As I like to say, in america we build it first, we let the germans and japanese make improvements.

[rudypoochris]

I guess. The V8 I am using was EFI though, 5.0 HO. The Ford EEC-IV is an incredibly good system honestly. I will megasquirt it eventually though. I am going to eliminate the intake manifolds and build my own though either by welding or some sort of composite setup, stock is too heavy. The whole goal of the my 240z is to keep it light, thats part of the reason I chose the Ford V8. The alluminum block LS is just as light, maybe a smidge lighter with aluminum heads, but the iron block 302 is cheap. They are both pretty light setups. A Ford 302 HO (talking late model here) and an LS1 are both well under 500lbs, probably under 450lbs complete. Yes my 302 will split at 500whp, I don't plan on needing more than 400, but if I do Ill buy a 4 bolt alluminum aftermarket block.

As for import V8s vs American V8's, it all depends. The LS series is extremely reliable, lighter than most import V8's, certainly lighter than equal performing import v8's, and makes more power. Kind of hard to beat, there isn't a single import V8 that matches them that I can think of. Also the 300ftlbs of torque on my 225hp motor provides for excellent area under the power curve. I actually did a study on a 200hp Ford 302 curve vs a Honda F20C curve, they both dynoed at 200whp, but the honda had almost 15% less power across the entire useable accelerating range. That doesn't include the effect on city driving and cruising either, it does save gas though making no power at cruising speed.

The Nissan VH was nice, but the VK is an open deck design and suffers the same weakness as the VQ does. The VG on the other hand is very heavy so it is a trade off. The Toyota UZ series suffer big time on the breathability due to their compact heads, and the UR series is expensive and still doesn't match the LS series performance with direct injection. Also Toyota had to recall a bunch of UR's since the camshafts were breaking :/. In any case it all depends on what flavors you like. I hold no real affiliations. If a nissan motor made the most sense I would hop on it in A HEARTBEAT. It didn't make the most sense so I passed. The only other cheap engine that could have done anything for me from the import side would probably have been the UZ. Those were all automatics and cost alot to convert, and all lack any real aftermarket support. Sure you can go turbo on them, but that is $$. I can slap my 600cfm double pumper w/ mech secondaries on and not have to worry about EFI right off the bat, plus I will be able to spend $1500 in heads and cam and make 350-400hp. Kind of pointless for me to pick up a UZ, a VK, etc.

[Hodo]

The VG never came in a V8 model.

As for build the VH45DE is a 6 bolt main, 4 bolt with 2 cross bolts. From all my experiance I can say that thats a tad stronger than the 4 bolt main. The VKs are not a true Nissan thing, they are based on the VQ block on and not the VH. This I will blame on the Renault take over. Leave it to the Frogs to screw something up. Although I have found the 302 is a good block but it is a bit limited. Not a high rever.... it was back in the day but now not so much. The LS's are great V8s but 5.7L is a bit more than most cars the S30 chassis needs. After all there is a 560Z out there with a VK56DE. And over a hundred S30s with small blocks in them.

I had a Domestic V8 once, it was great, but nothing beats a high revving import V8. This is why domestic V8s cant make it in F1. Its not about the low end its about high end and durability.

[rudypoochris]

The reason F1 engines rev so high is since they are displacement limited. To make the same power they have to. If F1 could run low revs obviously they would. They could use lighter components, vastly increase engine life, etc. For me I am not displacement limited. Thus I can use a larger displacement to make power down low which makes for good cruising, maximum power under the curve, and alot more reliability.

I did a study about half a year agoc omparing a 2L making 200whp and a 5L making 200whp. The 5L had 15% more area under the power curve during a typical 2nd gear pull. That makes the 5L 15% faster for the same given peak HP. Thats a big deal not only for acceleration, but also for driveability since most the extra power was down low. It kills fuel economy having power down low unless you gear out of it. I'm going to try my best to gear out but a T56 is too heavy.

I know the VG was never a V8, never said it was. I have no illusions of the 302 being a monster. It is fine for up to 500hp and thats all I want. It is cheaper to build than any import V8, it is compact (IT FITS), and it is lighter than most import V8's as well, even though it is iron block. I know the VH has strong mains, so does the VK. The LS series runs 6 bolt mains too. I just couldn't afford and LS at the beginning on my project so I didn't use it. The 302 is a 2-bolt but people run cams on the HO hydraulic that rev 7500 or 8000. There just isn't any need to. A cam that run to around 6500 on a 302 with AFR heads will hit 400hp no problem. I wouldn't want much more out of that block any way.

[SilentNIght1647]

Hey Hodo you are aware that their is a group of guys who race in circles for hours on end turning 9,000 with domestic V8s right? And that's with little 390cfm four barrels. I am really getting sick of guys bagging on American motors as being low tech and outdated. Anything you can do to that import you can do to a domestic. That is why Nextel Cup, IROC, NHRA, IHRA and every other sanctioning body all run American V8s in their top classes. Now granted Toyota does have a cup car now but it is essentialy a small block Chevrolet with a Toyota badge on it. And what is the big deal about using a powerplant from another manufacturer? I personally like going fast and I happen to be cheap too so I build cars that are fast and cheap so I use good old iron small blocks that I can make 400hp in for less than 1,000 starting with nothing. Show me an import that can do that. The day these import manufacturers want to step up and play with the big boys fine but until then they are nothing but toys for the fast and the furious generation. Now that I am done with that I applaud the effort of putting a 5.0 into a Z not many people do, at least not as many asa those who put a SBC in one so good on you. When you Megasquirt it let me know how it goes I've been thinking about switching to it on my L31 but I'm afraid that I couldn't get the damn thing to run.

[Hodo]

I am quite aware about NASCAR and the donut runs... 9K RPM for 500Miles... thats great. But they use that engine 1 race then its retired. F1 runs a engine at 17K RPM with over 2000 Gearshifts during a typical race and they have to use those engines two races. Totalling over 600miles. A engine running at 9K RPMs for 500miles is easier on the engine than changeing RPMs every few seconds. JGT cars run stock block engines, and they run for several hundred miles too and they go through several hundred gear changes during their races and they make it through the race with considerably less attrition than both of the other two racing leagues (F1 and NASCAR)

I am not downing American engines. I just find the quality lacking. Back in the day (Before big unions and emissions) the US automanufacturer made some good engines, and were leaders in the feilds.... but they were and are inifitiant. The Emissions prooves this. You can tune a 350 to run clean as a bell, but it wont come that way from the factory. I am a american bigblock fan, I love the 454, and the 427. But I find them best suited to putting in a good muscle car, or poney car, or even in a good rodder truck. I think most domesticheads are ignorant to what most import engines are cappable of and how to build them right. They think "oh that 1.6L honda isnt nothing" or "I have soda bottles that hold more than your engine!" Then you compair the stats, and well that honda is making more power per liter than your 302,305,350,351,427,454, or what haveya. Sure its power curve is a bit more peaky, but its also not going to make the torque of your bigger displacement engines. But it will out rev you, and get better milage.

I follow racing in all its forms, as long as its in a car or truck I generally will watch it. Hell from time to time I watch some Moto-GP..... now those guys are nuts.

[SilentNIght1647]

Look when it comes right down to it you can't beat cubic inch there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You have to compare apples to apples though yeah a stock Honda will make more HP per liter than a SBC but the SBC still amkes more and cost a hell of a lot less. Now modify that Honda up to the HP level of the stock SBC (around 350) and see what it costs you and how your mileage is. In theroy the smaller cubic inch engines should be able to compete with the big boys but in reality it just isn't true, I can build a bigger motor with more power for less money than any import engine which leaves valuable coin to put into the suspension and drivetrain. Don't you think that if NASCAR and IROC teams could run 4&6 cylinders and be competitive they would? If they are so superior why does no one run them in all-out race cars with the exception of JGTC which requires them. A big cubic inch V8 is considered the first choice for most performance car builds. How many times have you heard a hot rod builder say yeah were gonna swap that V8 for that 1.8 Honda. Be realistic if these Jap manufacuturers want to play they need to build something big and put all their fancy toys on it and come kick all our V8 loving American asses but it hasn't happened yet and I don't think it will.

[Hodo]

LOL no one runs them.... you dont watch any other racing other than american racing do you? F1, WRC, JGTC, GT, Lemans, and Rolex. Just to name a few. NASCAR, NHRA, and IROC are just a SMALL minority in the racing world. Most of the world runs "import" engines. Smaller more effeciant Japanese, and European engines. You can take all that crap about bigblock this and bigblock that and shove it in your carborator. Big blocks are great, and you ARE right, there IS no replacement for displacement. BUT you can make more effeciant engines and make more power without the massive size. I come from the world of domestic big blocks, my first car and one of my favorites was a 1965 4door Impalla with a 454 swap. I loved the sound the feel, but it just didnt have what I wanted in a car. Top end. And I am sorry but the american ironblock just doesnt make the top end that a import engine can make.

Thats just what I have to say about that.

[SilentNIght1647]

Whatever man believe what you want but when I kick your import ass with my old ironblock Chevy don't get upset. You remind me of a guy I knew that bragged that a Type R B18 made like 220 horse stock claiming it is the best performance motor on the planet and make more power than from per liter than anything else and had a Honda part number on it, I got out the ol' trusty GM book and showed him a ZZ572 it makes 800 horse from the factory and has a GM part number on it. Whats more important HP per liter or how much power it acutally makes? Import engines may be more efficent and have all sorts of cool toys but when it come down to it saying well my motor makes twice the HP per liter that yours does doens't win races. In theroy yeah a motor that makes over 150 horse per liter should blow an "inefficent" design from the sixties away but it doesn't. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that it doesn't really matter what looks better on paper it matters what actually works. Top end on the other hand is a matter of perspective, yeah an import may turn 12k but only make 500HP where as my Chevy can make that at 5k which car will actually overall have more "top end" really is determined by the trans, rear end, and the car itself rather than the motor itself, really the only thing that matters is the overall HP rating of the motor and the drivetrain not how much RPM it turns. Oh and by the way all the series you listed are displacement limited and if allowed they would run bigger motors so they made more power and turned less RPM.

[Hodo]

Well then we will aggree that we disaggree. Good luck with your domestic bastage child Z.