Air Conditioner Pricing Question

[FromAnOldsmobile4]

So I'm desperately trying to break my way into the world of the Jeep Cherokee here. I just looked at one yesterday but it had a non-working AC.

I searched the forums pretty thoroughly but couldn't come across any dollar amounts as related to ACs.

What's the low and the high it could potentially cost me if I buy this thing with dead air?

I'd probably be looking at upwards of 1500 right?

[vamc]

500 bucks or so maybe less. call an auto store to get an answer.

[dave92cherokee]

It all really depends on what year the jeep is and what is wrong with it. Yes if you have to replace every single piece of the whole a/c system then you're looking at around 2000 for high end stuff but if you can narrow it down to just one part the most expensive is a new compressor w/ clutch which for my 92 runs between 250-400. Best thing to do is if you can take the jeep for a test drive and take it to your mechanic or a local jeep dealer and pay for them to do either a used vehicle inspection or just look at the a/c system to see if you can find out exactly what's wrong with it. It may be as simple as the control panel switch or needing a recharge or a bad compressor.

[citizen@large]

Originally Posted by vamc

500 bucks or so maybe less. call an auto store to get an answer.

He's referring to an estimate of course... don't get scared yet, there are at least a few 'work-a-rounds' with this situation...

[vamc]

Thats right! :-) A compresser could easy be 2 grand. Shop around. Now thats not including install.

[FromAnOldsmobile4]

Hey thanks guys.

My issue with the truck in question was that he had taken it to a garage before(dealer actually) and they were unable to pinpoint the problem and couldn't get the A/C to run reliably after two services.

I think I'm going to pass on this one, as I'd prefer to not begin my foray into the world of Jeep ownership with a wild goose chase.

FYI though it's a 2000 Cherokee Sport 4 door 4WD. 127k miles too.

Blah. Thanks again. Used car shopping is awful. Why can't one of these things just fall from the sky and land in my garage. Of course somehow without passing through the house first...

[AlohaBra]

The AC can be troublesome.

I just put an AC compessor and did a recharge on it for $400.00.

Still working...since May. It was a rebuilt compressor.

Did it in the hotel parking lot at the Big Bear Jeep Jamboree. It blew up in the Mojave on the way there. Good thing I had tools. Which you should carry if you are Jeeping.

[sector95]

That's probably the best choice. There are a lot of these vehicles out there...unfortunately the XJ does not garner stellar ratings for being trouble free. I had to replace the AC evaporator coil (which is buried in the bowels of the dash HVAC plenum) because it was leaking refrigerant...the part was relatively cheap...the labor is what killed me as they literally had to take the dash apart to get to it.....ran $1000.00. The shop also replaced the drier and gave it a thorough going over and now it makes ice cubes....and here in GA in August that's worth every penny.

Mike
00XJ

[vroom20]

Just came across this thread not long ago and am in a similar situation. Got a 97 xj and want to fix the A/C at minimal cost (with 190k, I only want to invest what I have to). I was able to find both the compressor and dryer for a grand total of $300. I want to swap it all out myself but want to know, I should take the system in first to be evacuated or to crack it myself? Also, when I am done, do I just take it in to be recharged, or are there other services that I might need?

[citizen@large]

Here's a cool, chilly source of good A/C tech...

http://members.tripod.com/~jbabs714/acrefrig.htm

How Air Conditioners Work & When They Don't Work AIR CONDITIONING HELP**THIS IS FOR THE DO IT YOURSELFER WHEN THINGS HEAT UP
To post a message or a question visit my message board
Are you sweating and want to fix or at least learn about air conditioning, either home or car then you are at the right place.
If your looking for AUTO air conditioning help go here.
A/C trouble shooting tips
How to read and understand A/C gauges
If you know that the problem is electrial ie. fan motor not running or everything isnt running then go here to my a/c electric page.

The main thing to remember is that all freon(refrigerants) work the same way no matter what is cooled, as in ice machines,de-humidifiers,freezers,coolers for flowers,ect.
They all have a compressor, evaporator(cold coil), condensor(hot coil), expansion valve, and some way to remove the heat such as fans,water,buried underground,ect.
They may use different refrigerants such as R-11,R-12,R-502,R-111,even ammonia
Ammonia is somewhat different and dangerous so do not attempt to service these !!!!!
"Freon" is also dangerous and you should take great care not to get any liquid freon on you as it will freeze your skin on contact, The vapors are not as dangerous though make sure your in a well ventalated area because it displaces the air in the room, meaning it collects in clouds you cannot see.
Also when freon is burned (passes through a flame) it becomes toxic, when you smell something like an ammonia & bleach type smell its been burned and do not breath it.
"Freon is also under pressure some systems it can be as high as 300 or more psi.



HERE ARE SOME QUICK TIPS WHEN TROUBLE SHOOTING


Central Air Conditioning

First of all check the power to each unit (condenser*outside unit) Air handler (inside unit) for power, check the breakers or fuses on the inside of the house and there should be a breaker on or near the outside unit.
Check and make sure that the fans (both) outside and inside are running
If you have a package unit. The type that are on house trailers. The unit is all contained in one box with the duct work (2 duct hookups, in and out)the blower for the inside air is inside the box so just feel if any air is blowing out the ducts and the outside fan is running....P.S.-- if the cold coil is frozen than you won't feel any air blowing from the vents but the motor will still be running--. If you want to check to see if your inside air motor is running than turn your thermostat off, then click the fan switch to ON from the auto setting if its wired correctly you will hear the fan running inside the box..
The compresser must be running, it can be hard to hear if its running but they do have a buzzy type sound.
Look for any ice on any of copper tubing, if you see ice then your a/c is frozen up (cold coil).
One thing that is important is that the air coming out of the outside unit should be very warm unless you have a high efficient unit.
w If you have a split system (unit outside & a air handler inside) then while your central air is running feel the temperature of the bigger of the two copper tubes that come out of the unit. The bigger tube should be cold like a cold soda can, and the little tube should be warmish.

Pressures on gauges...

The readings on gauges are in pressure psi. If you look at the inside of the gauge there is a pressure temprature chart printed on the gauges for r-12, r-22, r-502. High and low side. Newer gauges have different charts.
Lets look at a few examples.
R-12 on the gauge.
If the pressure on an r-12 system on the low side, while the unit is running is 35 psi.(the outer black colored chart) then look at the smaller circles for the R-12 circle. The needle pointing to 35 psi. also crosses the R-12 circle, look at the corresponding number on it to determine what temperature the coil is operating at. It will be about 38 degrees F'.
If your hi side on r-12 is at 160 psi. then look on the inner part of the gauge on the high side it will read about 120 degrees f.
Lets look at r-22 on the gauge.
If you have a low side of 68 psi. reading on your gauge then look at the inner chart for r-22 at 68 psi. it is about 38 degrees f.
If you have a high side reading at 220 psi. then on your chart the gauge will read about 110 degrees f.
The evaporator (cold coil) on any air conditioning system should never be below 32 degrees f. Why because the condensate (water) on the coil will freeze, freezing up the system.
Freezers and refrigerators keep the temperature of the evaporator (cold coil) below freezing to keep the freezer cold enough to freeze. The coil operates at about 0 degrees f. So with the coil being that cold the condensate will turn to ice which will clog up the coil with ice. This will shut down the cooling. Refrigeraters have a defrost timer that turns on the heaters and shuts off the compressor. The timer keeps the defrost on for about 30-40 minutes. The thawing ice will drain down to the water pan under the frig to evaporate.
If your system runs low on refrigerant it will freeze up because the lack of pressure means the evaporator (cold coil) will be under the 32 degree mark, thus freezing the water.
It seems weird that if you loose refrigerant you would think that the system would warm up but thats not how it works. Think about it.
FOR THE R-134 PRESSURE CHART CLICK HERE>


AUTO AIR CONDITIONING



Auto air conditioning works the same way as all Freon systems.
They have a compressor, condensor (hot coil), evaperator (cold coil), and fans.
Under the hood is the compressor, condensor (hot coil), a shiny can (receiver with a dryer bag inside), a bunch of black tubing, and access valves.
To see more about auto air conditioning go here... ***under construction***



Other Useful Places To Go

For information on -Fuel Injection- basics
For information on -Air Conditioner electrical wiring-




For questions or comments:

[email protected]

[AlohaBra]

Originally Posted by vroom20

Just came across this thread not long ago and am in a similar situation. Got a 97 xj and want to fix the A/C at minimal cost (with 190k, I only want to invest what I have to). I was able to find both the compressor and dryer for a grand total of $300. I want to swap it all out myself but want to know, I should take the system in first to be evacuated or to crack it myself? Also, when I am done, do I just take it in to be recharged, or are there other services that I might need?

The proper way to do it is to evacuate to remove moisture. This requires a vacuum pump. (You can make one out of mini-air compressor.)

The "cheap" way is to add some r-134 and then release it (discharge) and then fill it up. Might work and might not.

BTW...a used dryer is not reliable.

[vroom20]

Thanks for the info. Citizens web sites and AlohaBras insights are helpful.

The a/c compressor and dryer are new. Just ordered them yesterday. because they are new, I want to get things right the first time.

How do you evac with an air compressor? After install, the system will have less than 1 psi air that needs to be removed. I want to get all the moisture out that I can. I will buy an air compressor if I need it.

From what the two of you are saying, or from what I understand, all I need to do to purge the air out is to fill my system with r134a after install, discharge some of it (air is lighter than r134a and will escape from the valve first) and then top it off again? Just want to confirm.

AlohaBra - how did you do your swap out in the desert?

[citizen@large]

Glad to help as far as I could and I'm glad you got something out of it. Unfortunately, that's as far as I can go with you on this subject. I'm just really good with

That's all...

How does this guy even get into his rig? That's what I wanna know. I've got a project on the horizon!

[sector95]

Just my coupla cents here....

As you seem to be serious about doing your own work on the A/C system and you wanna do it right, you need to arm yourself with a copy of a factory service manual for your XJ. They are not difficult to find and they are not that expensive. The Chrysler FSM's seem to be well written (giving overall views of the various system operations) and clear instructions on procedures. Do a Google search...eBay usually has sellers offering FSM's that have been put on a CD-ROM as a .pdf file (adobe acrobat files).

I am assuming you have already determined the compressor is bad...yes? Do you know if the system will hold a charge...as in does it leak? Replacing the dryer on a high mileage vehicle, especially after opening the system like you're gonna do, is a good idea as is replacing the various seals. I would find an A/C shop (or a garage that does a lot of A/C work) and tell them what you are doing and what you'd like to have them do (evacuate the system, leak check it then refill it later when your work is done). You might have trouble finding a shop willing to do this (then again you might not)....at the least they would not be responsible for any "problems" down the line because you were the one wrenching. I would have the shop evacuate your system to recover any R134 remaining....ask if they will credit you for the amount they pull out so you will only be charged the difference to fully service the system. One of the things applying a vacuum to the A/C system does is check for leaks...obviously if the system won't hold a good vacuum, there must be a leak in it. This would be a good thing to find out *before* you get everything buttoned up with your new parts and have it charged. The other thing the vacuum does is to remove any moisture from the system. A/C system parts are expensive and if this were my vehicle I would want to have it done right by the pros...spend a little bit more money now so you might not have to spend a bunch more later. My guess is a leak check, refrigerant recovery, purge and system refill will run around $100 - $120 or so. My XJ had a leak in the evaporator coil (the component that makes the air cold) and had to be replaced...this was expensive (see my previous post under this subject). Hopefully you won't be faced with the same problem. Having a shop charge your system will better ensure it's done right and that your A/C will be working properly.

Mike
00XJ

[AlohaBra]

I think having a shop do it is a good idea, but the labor is what will cost you.

The professional way is to hook a vacuum pump up and evacuate for 30 minutes. Under a vacuum any water vapor will "boil" and will be removed.

After evacuating for 30 minutes, I let it sit for 5 minutes or so under vacuum and if it holds, there is no leakage.

A set of High and Low manifold gages will tell you what is happening with the pressures.

After that, it is a simple mater to recharge through the low side. Just add the right amount of R134a. I think it is a little over two cans. The pressures are what you go by.

Note: When I did it in the desert, I had no vacuum pump, so yes, I did it the purge way. It was only open for 1-2 minutes and I had no choice, so I took a chance and did not do an evacuation by the book. If I had to, I could dump the R134a, evac, and then recharge again.