95 Grand Am Transmission problem.

[doug2060]

1995 Pontiac Grand Am SE 2.3 Quad 4 118,000miles Automatic Transmission- I believe my Transmission is starting in third gear when put in drive. I can pull the shifter all the way back into 2nd and it has a slightly better power response. Reverse works perfectly but the backup tail lights wont come on. Also the neutral safety switch is directly under the brake master cylinder. I recently did work there and brake fluid may have leaked onto it (I'm sure it did) where the neutral safety swich wiring harness connects and the rubber or plastic there is soft and has a slimey feel to it. The check engine light comes on as well. Would the neutral safety switch cause these sympyoms? The transmission worked perfectly with no jumping or slipping ever then I went out one day and I couldn't get it to shift out of park. It seemed locked so I turned the car off and then started it again and it released but these problems started. I also found that the fuse for the cruise control was blown but do not believe it to be related but you never know (possibly speed sensor????).... Before someone tells me to get it scanned which seems to be the only answer I get anywhere please give me an opinion. Also, Does Autozone rent OBD tools? I live in a small town and would have to go a long way for parts or even a shop to get it scanned. The only obd tools I can find to scan this model cost too much. Any help or opinion is very much appreciated.

[xeroinfinity]

ITs hard to say for certain about the fluid dripping on the PNS switch, but I would try and clean the area effected from the spill asap. Check that the wires are not friad either causing a short from the fluid leak.

Another thing is your car is a hybrid ODB I-II which usualy ends up having to have the stealership scan the car.
BUT, a trans shop can still probly read any trans codes

Good Luck

[doug2060]

I got up and went to my local flea market today. I talked a guy down from $100 to $50 for a used Actron 9150 for obd 1 & 2 with all accessories and case. The guy told me it cost about $400 new, so I thought it might work and it actually did! I got codes 27,28,and 29. Unfortunately I didn't get a book with the scan tool...doh! Is it related to the neutral safety switch as I suspect? Any help or opinion is much appreciated.

[xeroinfinity]

27 Quad Driver Module(QMD1)-Quad-driver sense voltage shows a low voltage for 5 seconds when battery voltage should be present or if the sense voltage shows battery voltage for 20 seconds when a low voltage should be present.

28 Quad Driver Module(QMD2)-Quad-driver sense voltage shows a low voltage for 5 seconds when battery voltage should be present or if the sense voltage shows battery voltage for 20 seconds when a low voltage should be present.

29- Quad-driver sense voltage shows a low voltage for 5 seconds when battery voltage should be present or if the sense voltage shows battery voltage for 20 seconds when a low voltage should be present.

You sure thier wasnt a 31 ?
Because that would be - a PCM showed an invalid PRNDL condition for at least 5 seconds when vehicle speed was greater than 5 MPH.

Now you probly wonder what a Quad-driver is....

Just because you have a Quad driver code doesn’t mean the Quad driver is bad. All a Quad driver code means is that an expected value is not present when it’s suppose to be. Also a Quad driver is a techy name for 4 on-off switches arranged in a group, hence the name Quad driver. The computer watches the voltage values on each switch and knows that if the switch is on, a voltage value will be seen. When the switch is off the opposite voltage value will be seen. Simply put, light on, light off.

So what can set a quad driver code?

You’d be surprised. How about a bad bulb?
How about a bad fuse?
The answer is yes to both questions. Yes, a bad bulb or failed fuse can set a Quad driver code.

Start with checking your fuses. There can be up to 3 fuses that supply power to circuits controlled by the Quad drivers.
If the fuses are good the next check would be of all or some of the following, depending on how your vehicle is equipped: Up shift light bulb, coolant hot bulb, shift to drive bulb, A/C relay, coolant fan relay, EGR solenoid, Canister Purge solenoid, even a speedometer output signal goes to one of the switches on the Quad driver.

It’s more likely that the Quad driver code is present because the computer is not seeing the information that it expects to see at one of the switches.

Hope that helps!

[doug2060]

No code 31... I was told it had to do with the transmission... Reader says quad driver B,C,D, codes 27,28,29 . Please helprunaround. I'll check it out... But would something that minor cause a limp mode state... Any tests for canister purge solenoid? I did notice an odd smell coming form the canister area...

[xeroinfinity]

If it is in limp mode then then thiers something in that cicuitry that caused it.
Though, the sticking shifter is common when you are parked on an incline.
I've seen FWD cars that would pull out of gear and had to be jacked up to release the torqu lock on the trans.

I do not have a test for the purge solenoid, but that wouldnt cause trans issues.
It would also(should) show a DTC for the Evap if it was faulty.

Could be a solenoid inside the trans thier are 3-4.
The spill could have shorted some thing out

With out a kickass manual with test procedures your prety much in the dark here.
But I would guess it it something in the trans ciruit/wiring.

Good Hunting!

[doug2060]

So, Is it possible to be the neutral safety switch. It appears to have been soaked with brake fluid where the wires go into it on the trans. The rubber where the wires connect into it is slimey and can be rubbed off revealing the wires inside. It also has no backup lights. Is it possible? I strongly believe it is, and right now it is my last logical option outside the trans. All relays, fuses, bulbs, check out.

[xeroinfinity]

I would try that , then at least youve coverd everything outside the trans.
It can be a pita to replace though.

I posted the procedure for the 99 somewhere here....
I'll see if I can find that.

Youre in Luck!

I searched and found the" test and replace/adjust procedures"

[doug2060]

Thank you, I have ordered a new one and will pick it up tomorrow night. However I did remove the old one and found something interesting. I opened it up and it appears to have water mixed with maybe grease/oil/brake fluid/whatever inside all over the brushes and circuit board. Its all over everything. Definately not supposed to be there I'm sure. I believe I may have found my problem. I will try to clean it out and put it back on. Even if it doesnt work atleast I will have practice for installing the new one. Opinions or ideas are still appreciated. Thanks again

[doug2060]

Nope it didn't work... Now I'm back to square one. I decided to look around and check out my wiring one last time and didn,t find anything under the hood but a chewed up wire going to the cruise control module on the fire wall (it was melted to another wire). I also found a couple wires inside the car for the shifter light module that appeared to have been shorted or cut and repaired but the wires were still exposed. Unless these had any affect on the computer it would have to be an internal transmission issue. Any ideas on that? How hard would it be to get to the internal solenoids and would I have to drop the trans?

[xeroinfinity]

Well the wires that were melted were probly what threw the Quad driver codes, if you repaired them then the codes need cleared.

On the transaxle, it'll probly need dropped out.
This link is for the TCC replace but shows the valve body and how it all comes out.
Not real easy though.
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/doity.../aa011703a.htm

Good Luck

[doug2060]

Is it possible the computer was damaged by the short in the wires going to the cruise control or shifter? I would really hate to get into the transmission and then be stuck again. I have read here and in other forums that these quad codes could possibly be a sign of a damaged computer even though its not very common. Where I stand now it really has to be one or the other. Also my scanner cant reset the error codes. As soon as I clear them, there they are again. Does this mean anything? (probably not but I thought I would mention it). Also would it cause the reverse lights to fail?

[doug2060]

I borrowed an ecm from the junk yard but no luck. I tried all the easy stuff first but I guess its time to drop the transmission. Those shift solenoid switches are not too expensive (around $30 each at Autozone). Is ther another computer other than the ecm that controls the transmission? Should I replace both shift solenoids and the converter clutch solenoid? Is there a way to test them without messing them up? Any help or last minute ideas are very welcomed. I also found a helpful bit of info here http://www.atraonline.com/manuals/ge.../tetdv-c3g.htm

[xeroinfinity]

Did you do a ssytem relearn when you installed the ecu ?
It probly wasnt working if you didnt....

If I was you I wouldnt take the trans apart just yet.

I would take it to a trans shop(or the stealership) and have it properly diagnosed.

Chances are you take it all apart, and its not the problem then you'll have wasted a day or two plus more money and still have the same issues.

Good Luck

and thankx for that link to the trans diag

[doug2060]

http://www.atraonline.com/manuals/ge.../tetdv-c3g.htm I used this test and found that the shift solenoids appear to be functional. Now I'm really stumped... Is there any other potential things I should look at? I also just realized I dont have to press the brake pedal to move the shifter from park. I also still haven't found the cause of why there are no backup lights. I am going to try the canister purge solenoid later today since it is controlled by the quad drivers but I dont really expect it to work.
PS: This link also has links to other similar transmissions and I hope it may help others. I was lucky to run into that page. Sorry I keep editing my posts. I really hate it when I miss something or mis-spell...