Hope I can get some help...

[kellbell]

Hey all,

I recently purchased a 2001 Olds Intrigue with just a little over 107K. So far, it has been working good. But this weekend, ALL of my windows do not work. My boyfriend and I put down the front windows and now they will not go back up. And the back windows will not go down.

And my radio is not working either.

Everything else on the vehicle is working. Locks, mirrors, power seats, air, all the other electical things are working, execpt for the windows and radio.

We checked all the obvious things, the fuse box, tested the voltage on the fuses, all seem to be working and none of them are disconnected. We took apart the door panels and all seems to be in their place and the fuses work in there as well.

Anyone have an idea what could be wrong? I am really hoping it is something silly and could be fixed at home. I just spent a bundle on tires, so I am hoping to give my wallet a break. I thank you all in advance for reading and offering any insight on what this weird thing can be.

[Mrbizness1]

You checked the fuses, but have you checked any relays. Most systems that use a lot of power also use relays to protect the circuits. There should be a relay box under the hood somewhere. You can pick up a Haynes manual for about $20.00 at most auto stores. Most radios only use a the CTSY fuse.

[kellbell]

Thank you so much for responding.

After reading your response, my boyfriend and I checked out the relays. Unfortunately there are no relays for the power windows. The power windows are on a seperate amp fuse and we found that fuse and it works.

We did find the relay box under the hood but all those fuses are for the engine only, nothing for power windows and so forth.

The relays the for the turn signals are behind the dash, we cannot get to it, there are no relays on the fuse panel.

I am not too concerned about the radio although it stinks it is not working at the moment. Everything about the radio is not working, the clock, CD player...nothing.

UGH! I am so sad.

[BNaylor]

The power windows should be protected by a resettable circuit breaker not just a fuse. Since the radio and power windows do not work the circuit common is retained accessory power (RAP). If the RAP relay does not energize you will not have any radio turn on or any of the power windows. The RAP relay is controlled by the body control module (BCM). Check the operation of the RAP relay first.

And welcome to AF.

[kellbell]

Originally Posted by bnaylor

The power windows should be protected by a resettable circuit breaker not just a fuse. Since the radio and power windows do not work the circuit common is retained accessory power (RAP). If the RAP relay does not energize you will not have any radio turn on or any of the power windows. The RAP relay is controlled by the body control module (BCM). Check the operation of the RAP relay first.

And welcome to AF.

Hey thank you for the response. When I bought the vehicle, the owner's manual was missing so I am assuming she tossed it. Do you happen to know where this circut breaker is? I have the manual on special order so it wil be a few days.

Thank you so much for the welcome and suggestion. This is a very useful and cool forum!

[fhofstra]

Kellbell:
For what its worth, my 2000 Intrigue shop manual says and shows (pg. 8-680) that the RAP relay is on the RH side of the IP (instrument panel), up under the dash on the passenger's side. Here's how I saw it: with your back & shoulders at the passenger's footwell (remove the felt panel first) look up behind the round blower motor assembly. You will want a flashlight. You will see a row of relays (4 for my car) up behind the blower. The RAP relay is on the end, toward the (normal) right side of the car. This might help you troubleshoot: with a finger on the relay, turn the ignition switch from off to acc (just to the first position from "off"). You should hear/feel the relay activate (click). Flip the ignition off. The relay should click again, deactivating, unless you are contortionist enough to be doing this with the RF door shut. If all doors were shut, the relay would stay activated for about 10 minutes, or until you opened any door.
Whichever happens, that would give you a troubleshooting start point. Hope this helps.
And yes, it is a pretty neat forum.

[kellbell]

Thank you so much!! I am going to wait until my boyfriend gets home and check it out. He knows what he is doing, I have a feeling I will destroy something! LOL

I will let you all know how things turn out.

[kellbell]

Okay, we checked the relays under the dash and they are fine. We heard them click and so forth. No luck. I just don't understand. Everything is intact, all the fuses have power, the relays seem to be working. Looks like I am going to have to break down and bring the car to the dealership.

Gosh, this is so frustrating.

[BNaylor]

Just because a relay clicks does not mean it is good. All it means is the coil is energizing therefore the signal from the BCM module is probably good. The relay has separate contacts that passes 12 volts to the radio and power window circuits. The relay is a SPDT type with normally open or closed contacts. NO/NC. You can check for 12 volts at the pins on the relay socket that correspond to pins 87 and 30 or whatever the illustration on the relay shows. Are you sure the RAP fuse is good which includes checking for 12 volts at one side of the fuse socket?

[kellbell]

Hey all,

I thank you all for your help and patience with me. We checked the power of the windows and radio from the fuses and there is no power going to the fuses. The fuses work but no power is reaching the fuses. If that makes any sense.

We took apart what we think is the RAP relay (under the dash) and the 2001 model has 5 relays instead of 4. But we are stuck on how we can test it.

[fhofstra]

Kellbell -
Try checking for 12VDC at the RAP relay. Bnaylor is right about relay activation being only part of the story. My schematic and component views (2000 Intrigue) contradict each other as to the particular wire colors at the RAP relay, but what they agree on is that the red and the dark blue wires at the relay are for transferring power, when the relay is activated, on to the two fuses that supply radio and windows power.
So: with the key off (RAP relay deactivated), you should have 12VDC to either the red or the dark blue wire (I'd guess red, but try both). If you do not, power is not getting to the relay from the "underhood accessory wiring junction block" (right side of engine compartment, mounted to the strut tower). Mine has "fuse relay center" molded in the plastic cover. The circuit needed is "IGN 1". Take the cover off; the picture inside will show you which fuse this is (5, on my car). Schematics and reality disagree again, here; prints say 50 amp Maxifuse for this circuit; my picture and real fuse is 30 amp. That is where the power has to come from, that your RAP relay would pass on.
If you do have 12VDC on the red (or dark blue?) wire, then with the relay activated, you should have 12VDC on the other wire, and (now) to the two fuses for radio and power windows. Those fuses are on the "fuse block", accessed by pulling off the plastic cover at the extreme right side of the IP and dash. Open the RF door fully, and you will see the indentation and finger hole for pulling this off, to get at this set of fuses.
Don't know how much of this you have already done...that's how I'd approach it. Good fortune with it.

[rncotton]

OK y'all ... don't laugh ...

Give each relay a good solid "thump" .... sometimes they just get stuck and need a little help to get working again.

[harmankardon35]

my 01 escort zx2 had the same problem. No pwer to the fuse. Found the resetable circuit braker right above the fuse box, it was basically a black box with a little red button that was poped out. I pushed it back in and as soon as I turned the key on, it would pop back out. Found out the passengers side switch had broken internally and was shorting out. Temporary fix I just disconnected the button because I could still roll it down on the drivers side.