Coolant Problems

[TheDeal526]

1997 Grand AM, 3.1L
101,530 miles

OK, so I been having coolant problems lately. The first sign was 3 days ago when I saw smoke coming from under the hood. That turned out to be coolant bubbling and escaping from the reserve tank. My mechanic said my electric fan motor needed to be replaced, along with the temp. sensor that regulates when the fan turns on and off. After all that i noticed coolant still bubbling and escaping from the reserve tank. But after taking a closer look at the coolant in the reserve i noticed what appears to be oil, or some kind of foreign substance in the coolant. i also noticed what appeared to be tiny air bubbles. i failed to mention i also replaced the lower radiator hose and the reserve tank cap.

Now my car isn't overheating, but i'm thinking the lower intake gaskets or the head gaskets have failed. the oil dipstick doesnt appear to show signs of coolant in the oil. And i also heard that the tranny fluid can somehow get in the coolant and cause air pockets to develop in the cooling system. I'm pretty sure what I saw was motor oil. But can anyone help me as to what I should be looking for to pin point what my problem is? I plan on taking my car to the shop on monday 07/16/07 and i don't want to appear to be clueless. I know no matter how much I bleed the cooling system, i continue to have air in it. and if i drive to much, coolant will begin to escape from the reserve tank when i turn the car off. I'm sure it's the lower intake gasket, but i was hoping one of the Grand Am Experts here could point me in the right direction.

Thanks All

[xeroinfinity]

Oil in the coolant is another sign of a LIM leaking.

In my 25+ years I have only seen 1 car that had trany fluid in the coolant, and that was because they ran the car for 3-4 yeart with no coolant - just water.
Which rusted out the trans cooler line in the radiator, pretty rare IMO.

When bleeding the cooling system you do need to turn on the heater so all of the air can get out of the heater core.

You could try a cooling system flush too if you havnt already. Might help the overheating...

Good Luck

[TheDeal526]

thanks xeroinfinity. i did have the heater on thinking that air pockets may have been in the heater core too. but once i noticed tiny air bubbles after 45 minutes of running the engine with the reserve tank cap off, then that substance in the coolant, i was sure it was the lower intake gasket that i've heard so much of that was the culprit. i'm gonna take it to the shop tomorrow, i just hope that after its fixed, i don't have to worry about that problem anymore. i just wanted to be a little educated when i do go to the shop tomorrow.

its funny though, because the oil looks fine, completely uncontaminated and at the proper level, as does the tranny fluid. only the coolant has some type of contaminate in it. i'll post what the shop tells me tomorrow.

[TheDeal526]

by the way, i may need to drive the car a couple times before i take it to the shop. the temp. gauge hasnt show that its overheating. is it safe to drive, or should i just not drive it at all?

[crazy Jim]

should be safe to drive since it appears to not be running hot and you say the oil is clean. Can you describe the color of what you are seeing in the coolant?

[TheDeal526]

well first i noticed the coolant itself looked darker than normal. i have the dexcool antifreeze (orange) mixed with water. than i noticed some sort of clear substance floating around in the coolant. i'm gonna double check it today.

[2001 ASTRO DUDE]

Originally Posted by xeroinfinity

You could try a cooling system flush too if you havnt already. Might help the overheating...

Good Luck

Anyone have a good proceedure for flushing out the cooling system on a 94 3.1L GA? I have no radiator cap (other than the surge tank) and no petcock. Somebody has made it nearly impossible to take the clamp off of the lower hose at the radiator going to the water pump by how they positioned the clamp. I managed last night to do a fairly thorough flush and add some cleaner. I need to flush it tomorrow, change the thermostst and refill. Any advice would be most helpful.

[xeroinfinity]

The best way to flush the radiator is to remove the thermostat, replace the hose(with thermo left out) then add your cleaner(flush chems) and run it as stated on cleaner.
Migth take two bottles of flush if its realy dirty.

And drain from the bottom radiator hose.
That is the only way if you dont have or cant open the drain on the radiator.

Then fill and drain 4-6 times to flush every thing out, including the chemicals.

Replace thermostat and add coolant to proper mix, usually 50/50.

hope that helps!

[2001 ASTRO DUDE]

Xeroinfinity,
Thanks for the info. It would help if you would come over and turn the clamp on the hose so I could get the #$^$ off!! I flushed out the rust last nithe be removing the "y" portion of the lower hose at the surge tank and the upper hose (it's really in the middle) coming back from the thermostat and used the small hose in the "y" portion in an attempt to do a power flush with the hose. I put in a bottle of Prestone cleaner but did not remove the thermostat yet. The directions say to drain and refill with water with cleaner and drive for 3-6 hours. Can't do that with out the thermostat in (or I'd rather not). I looked on the radiator for the traditional whing nut style petcock and there is none. I'll check the bottom tomorrow when I get ready flush and refill for some kind of flat plug like some here have mentioned. I have a new thermostat so I will pull the old one out before I flush this time around like suggested.

[TheDeal526]

Just a quick update on my orginal problem. I took my car to a local Aamco shop on july 17th. They made the determination that my fan was not cooling properly. I noticed the fan did vibrate as it turned on and just as it turned off. The guy at Aamco also said I was seeing dirt in my cooling system not oil. I know I had my personal mechanic flush the cooling system a few weeks ago. But the guy at Aamco says that there may still be some dirt in the cooling system. He also says the intake gaskets were changed recently and it looks like I should be ok with that. He recommends replacing the eletric fan, and a cooling system flush. I already gave the ok for that and he ordered the fan from GM today.

Two quick questions though. The guy at Aamco says my fan was aftermarket and was " a piece of crap most likely made in japan". With that said could my problem by my fan? I did notice vibrations, but never while spinning, just as it turns on and off. And my other question, can a good mechanic really look at one of these 3.1L motors and determine if the intake gaskets were chaged recently or not? I mean my motor was steam cleaned before I purchcased the car I'm sure because it was clean as a whistle. So he look at the motor and see that the gasket are fairly new?

Thanks again all

[wtselig07]

As long as you don't see a wet spot forming around where the gaskets are you're fine. So if it was steam cleaned before you bought it any appearance of the problem would have been washed away.

[xeroinfinity]

Originally Posted by TheDeal526

Just a quick update on my orginal problem. I took my car to a local Aamco shop on july 17th. They made the determination that my fan was not cooling properly. I noticed the fan did vibrate as it turned on and just as it turned off. The guy at Aamco also said I was seeing dirt in my cooling system not oil. I know I had my personal mechanic flush the cooling system a few weeks ago. But the guy at Aamco says that there may still be some dirt in the cooling system. He also says the intake gaskets were changed recently and it looks like I should be ok with that. He recommends replacing the eletric fan, and a cooling system flush. I already gave the ok for that and he ordered the fan from GM today.

Two quick questions though. The guy at Aamco says my fan was aftermarket and was " a piece of crap most likely made in japan". With that said could my problem by my fan? I did notice vibrations, but never while spinning, just as it turns on and off. And my other question, can a good mechanic really look at one of these 3.1L motors and determine if the intake gaskets were chaged recently or not? I mean my motor was steam cleaned before I purchcased the car I'm sure because it was clean as a whistle. So he look at the motor and see that the gasket are fairly new?

Thanks again all

Yes a bad fan can cause it to overheat .
It may not have spun fast enough to actualy cool down the motor, but yet still turned.
A fan that rubs will not work correctly either.

You can tell if the gaskets are newr by the edge that sticks over around the upper intake,
and the lower if you know where to look.
Steam wouldnt realy make the gasket(s) look new

[TheDeal526]

well so far so good. Aamco fixed my A/C and i noticed that the fan continued to spin while the A/C was running. i can only assume thats normal. It was kinda funny because with the a/c running, the temp. gauge is lower (because the fan continues to spin), than if i was running with no a/c on. The engine was steam cleaned, either that or i have the cleanest motor with over 100,000 miles without having ever been cleaned.

thanks for all the help my friends

[xeroinfinity]

Glad to hear!
Yes it is normal for the fan to run while the AC is on.
Here is the stats for the fan run cycle..

The PCM commands Low Speed Fans ON under the following conditions:

The engine coolant temperature exceeds approximately 106°C (223°F).
The A/C refrigerant pressure exceeds 1310 kPa (190 psi).
The vehicle is shut off when the engine coolant temperature is greater than 140°C (284°F) and system voltage is more than 12 volts. The fans will stay ON for approximately 3 minutes.

The PCM commands High Speed Fans on under the following conditions:

The engine coolant temperature reaches 110°C (230°F).
The A/C refrigerant pressure exceeds 1655 kPa (240 psi).
When certain DTCs set.

[indygrandam]

one thing i have learned is that the dexcool gets old and causes the lining in the metal hoses and other parts to fail.I believe that what you are seing as dirt is actually the lining flaking off in the antifreez.I have flushed mine at least 10 times and ran cleaner in 2 times and still get the little flakes in the system.To me it is almost like the no stick surface on pots and pans that they used to line the hose pipes.I am almost 100% sure that most of the overheating problems we are having is from these little pieces clogging the radiator and heater coil.

My car will get warmer than usual jst driving down the street but if i get the rpm's up a bit its like it forces the little pieces through or just forces more coolant through the radiator and the temps drop really fast.

The next time it gets hot try reving the motor a bit and see if the temp drops really fast.

I am no master mechanic by no meens but this is what i have found from my experiences from my car....