1996 Windstar - Need Help Solving Passenger Power Window Problem

[jeaton]

1996 Windstar 3.8

I need some expert advice determining why my passenger-side power window is not working; neither the driver-side nor the passenger-side switch work. Note, though the driver-side window works fine.

I spent this afternoon with both door panels off (Thanks to wiswind for the how-to pics!!!), attempting to do some continuity tests on the switches. I read many/most of the power window threads on the forum and gleaned some useful information. I also subscribed to AllData to get some additional information and diagrams of the switches. But, it didn't help as they don't have a diagram of the driver-side master switch. Instead they show the passenger-side switch diagram twice (???). I sent them an email requesting they provide a diagram of the driver-side master switch. Until then I'm not sure how to perform the continuity tests on the driver-side master switch.

From what I can tell thus far, it doesn't appear that power is getting to the (passenger-side) motor. I probed the connector and in neutral position, it shows continuity. This matches the behavior on the driver-side motor connector, so I assume it is correct.

However, when the switch is toggled upward or downward, NO voltage appears across the connector pins; the driver-side shows ~12V in both directions (toggled up or down).

What would cause the voltage not to appear at the motor connector? Is this a switch issue, a broken wire, a relay issue? I think I read in one post that both windows were on the same fuse and relay. Is that correct or is there a separate fuse and/or relay for the passenger-side window?

Here are links to pictures of both switches with labeled pin numbers and wire color(s). On the master switch, I numbered the driver-side portion and lettered the passenger-side portion.

Link to picture of Driver-side Master Switch
http://www.knology.net/~jeaton/Winds...ch-Labeled.JPG

Link to picture of Passenger-side Single Switch
http://www.knology.net/~jeaton/Winds...ch-Labeled.JPG

I appreciate your advice in solving this problem. Please let me know if there is any additional information I can provide.

Jon

[wiswind]

Fuse #40 in the I/P fuse panel (by the driver's foot) is the fuse for the right side power window.
It is a 30 amp fuse.
These are readily available at most any auto part store.
I recommend keeping a small "assortment" box of these mini-fuses in the glove box. They sell these "assortment" boxes...with maybe 10 various size fuses at most auto part stores.

On the passenger side switch, Pin #3 (pink) should have the power when the ignition is ON.

Pins #1 and #5 (Both Yellow with Red stripe) connect to the motor.

You can use Pin #6 (black) for common point for your meter.

The Driver's side is fuse #34

[jeaton]

Thanks wiswind. Somehow I missed that the right window has a separate fuse.

I checked the fuse and it was indeed blown. I replaced it with another 30A fuse, but surprisingly the window motor still didn't work. I'll check the connections tomorrow a.m.

Just to confirm, 3 and 6 should have continuity when the ignition is on and both 1 and 5 to 6 should show ~12V?

Thanks,

Jon

[wiswind]

Use pin #6 (black) as Ground
Pin #3 (pink) should have about 12V whenever the ignition is ON..
This pin supplies the 12V to the contacts of the switch.

Pins 1 & 5 will be about 12V when the switch is pressed in the direction to activate them.
One way will make pin 1 12V, and the other way will make pin 5 12V

I replaced my motor as shown in the pictures....but it sticks.....and when I remove the door panel and loosen and re-tighten the bolts....it suddenly starts to work again.
I suspect that the same would have happened with my old motor unit.

[jeaton]

Thanks wiswind. I'll test this tomorrow let you know the results!

Jon

[jeaton]

Hi wiswind,

Probed the back of the connector on the passenger side and found that 3 (pink) and 6 (black) have continuity with the power on.

However, I don't get the results you expected between 1 to 6 or 5 to 6.

1 (Y/r) to 6 (Blk) ->
Neutral position - shows continuity.
Toggled up - shows continuity, but doesn't show 12V.
Toggled down - shows continuity, but doesn't show 12V.

5 (R/y) to 6 (Blk) ->
Neutral position - shows continuity. Should this show voltage?
Toggled up - shows continuity, but doesn't show 12V.
Toggled down - shows continuity, but doesn't show 12V.

Does this lead us back to the driver-side master switch?

Thanks,

Jon

[jeaton]

Bump... :-)

[wiswind]

Pin 2 White with Yellow stripe
Pin 4 Tan with Light Blue Stripe
These both come from the driver's side "master control" switch.

I am not sure if I understand "continuity".....to me it means low resistance between the 2 points mentioned.
Check to make sure that you have +12 Volts on Pin 3 (pink) using Pin 6 (black).
If you do not have this, then you will not get voltage on the other measurements.

When you toggle the switch....you will apply +12V to one side of the motor and ground to the other.....then when you toggle the switch to the other direction.....you will be simply switching which motor leads have the +12V and ground....to make it run in the other direction.....so where you measured +12V in the first position, you will measure 0V.......

Now.....I have a Radio Shack DMM.....that was very inexpensive....and the sample time is a couple of seconds......much slower than the more expensive Fluke DMM that I use at work......so I thought that I had no voltage.....but it ended up being the slower sample time of my meter.
Holding the switch for too long will blow the 30amp fuse.
One could use one of those test lights that they sell at auto part stores also......make sure to use one designed for Automotive.....and NOT one intended for household use (A/C, and higher voltage)......and then, don't use the automotive one for household use....unless it specifically says that it can be used for such.