92 Lesabre stalls after 10 minutes

[bsschmitz]

I have a 93 Buick Lesabre that stalls after running for about 10 minuets. I replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter w/ no joy. When I turn the key to on position I get gas right before the injectors. I was able to get the codes 17 and 58 by grounding out pins a and b on the computer terminal and watching how many times the lights blink. I think it might be the camshaft sensor but am not sure if it is and how to test if that is the problem . Any help would be great

[spinne1]

Originally Posted by bsschmitz

I have a 93 Buick Lesabre that stalls after running for about 10 minuets. I replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter w/ no joy. When I turn the key to on position I get gas right before the injectors. I was able to get the codes 17 and 58 by grounding out pins a and b on the computer terminal and watching how many times the lights blink. I think it might be the camshaft sensor but am not sure if it is and how to test if that is the problem . Any help would be great

Code 58 is the pass key system. Because your car starts with this code stored, it should not have anything to do with your stalling. Why? Because your car's PCM is designed to ignore the lack of a fuel enable signal from the pass key module when a code 58 is set [assuming it is set while the car is running!] and allow the car to run anyhow (Code 58 is set when there is a loss of proper resistance reading of your pellet on your key in the ignition). There is a test to find out if you have either an intermittent problem or a faulty PCM. First, clear the code by unhooking the battery for 30 seconds (or unhooking the PCM fuse). Second, try to start the car. If the car does not start, it generally means your PCM has NOT received the fuel enable signal. If so, you have either a bad connection to your PCM or Pass Key Module, OR you have a loss of power or ground to your Pass Key Module. To properly diagnose the code 58, subscribe to alldata.com and do the tests for a code 58.

Code 17 is the Spark Reference Circuit. Basically it means that a signal is used by the PCM below 1200 rpm to better control ignition timing. I do not know if a lack of this signal could result in stalling. But it seems from my reading that neither code you have would result in stalling. Perhaps some more basic tests are needed:

Fuel correct?
Spark correct?
Crank sensor working correctly?
Ignition module correct?
There are many things it could be and you need to see a good mechanic to find the true cause.

[HotZ28]

Click Here for a CEL code description. A bad cam sensor usually will not cause a stall; however, it might cause the car to run rough. Code 17 indicates a failure of the spark reference signal to the PCM. Usually, the crank sensor will cause this code. BTW, this can cause stalling! It could also be the ICM or a bad coil. When the car is running, do you have any skipping or hesitation?

[bsschmitz]

How do I go about checking the crank sensor?
Also No thier is no heistation before it stall out. It does sputter a little right before satlling but nothing in between.

[HotZ28]

Originally Posted by bsschmitz

How do I go about checking the crank sensor?
Also No thier is no heistation before it stall out. It does sputter a little right before satlling but nothing in between.

The spec on the crank sensor should read between 700 and 900 ohms. The problem most people run into when testing the sensor is, they usually test it at ambient temperature, not when it is hot.

When you have an intermittent CPS problem, the best solution is to remove the crank sensor, place it in a pan of hot water and hook up your DVOM to watch the sensor's resistance as it warms up. (Check it all the way up to a boil). If it is a bad sensor, resistance will increase, until it suddenly goes open. (That is the point where your car will either, refuse to start, or simply shut down)!

[bsschmitz]

Sorry for no response in a while I can only work on the weekends. I was able to gain some ground towards the trouble. If I leave the car run until it dies and will not start anymore I pulled out one of the plugs ,attached it to the wire, grounded it out and had my wife turn the car over, and their was NO spark. I know I did this right because I tried this before the car stalled and I had spark. I’m hopeing that someone might be able to help me narrow it down
Thanks

[Mickey#1]

The problem is is most likely the Crank Sensor or Ignition Control Module (ICM). Repeat your experiment but cool the crank sensor down with a stream of water from your garden hose. If it restarts after cooling the sensor then you found the problem.

[bsschmitz]

How do i know where the crank sensor is???

[Mickey#1]

Crank sensor is behind the harmonic balancer. Harmonic balancer is the pulley that attaches to the crankshaft. Lowest pulley on the motor.

[bsschmitz]

This time she would not fire up at all even when it had been sitting for 4-5 hours. I sprayed water on the sensor becuase it has been a hot day but that did not work either how do I test the Ignition Control Module.

Thanks
Bruce

[Mickey#1]

Best way to test the ICM is try it on another car.

[HotZ28]

You can also take the module to AutoZone and have them do a load test on it. Be sure to tell them to do it three or four times for best results!

[Luke.]

> Fm BS Schmitz <

> How do I go about checking the crank sensor?
Also No thier is no heistation before it stall out. It does sputter a little right before satlling but nothing in between. <

From my three (3) situations, where exactly the same conditions presented themselves, while driving, I might add on a freeway, the resulting fault was found to be a failing crank sensor. I also found, as a side note, after the car sat for about fifteen minutes, thus the crank sensor cooling down, the engine started back up.

> Fm Hot Z28<

> When you have an intermittent CPS problem, the best solution is to remove the crank sensor, place it in a pan of hot water and hook up your DVOM to watch the sensor's resistance as it warms up. (Check it all the way up to a boil). If it is a bad sensor, resistance will increase, until it suddenly goes open. (That is the point where your car will either, refuse to start, or simply shut down)! <

And in my cases, the car "simply shut down", a very abrupt 'shut-down'.
BTW, HOTZ, appreciated learning your suggesting for testing the unit. As I have a back-up unit, I'm going to use your test procedures.

[HotZ28]

Originally Posted by Luke.

And in my cases, the car "simply shut down", a very abrupt 'shut-down'. BTW, HOTZ, appreciated learning your suggesting for testing the unit. As I have a back-up unit, I'm going to use your test procedures.

Thanks, be sure to post the results of the test!