Control Arm help tonite

[drdd]

Good lord what was I thinking! I thought I'd try to change my control arm bushings today as they look really crumbly and I've been having a little bump-steer. 97 4dr. 4WD Jimmy W. Ball joints are new, idler arm is new, no play in tie-rod ends or pitman.

I've got EVERYTHING disconnected from the lower control arm (ball joint separated, torsion bar out, pins, everything!)

I can't get the ball joint end out from under the CV joint/backside of hub. The control arm is rounded upwards in a ball shape.

Do I need to remove the hub and pull the CV joint? Do I need to reassemble anything to get enough leverage to crack that hub bolt. What size is that hub bolt?

anybody got any ideas for a homemade press to get the bushings out? They will not budge on the upper control arm that I already have out of the truck.

~frustrated ...

[goser]

Unfortunately i've never been there, but i've heard of people using nuts and bolts to create a crude press. Also large sockets and a c-clamp. the axle nut is 36mm, you might be able to break it free by putting a drift in through the caliper and rotor. you don't have a gear puller do you? good luck

[old_master]

Lotta questions, I'll see what I can do.

Bump steer is caused by the center link not being level in the vehicle. Other than being bent, the only time this occurs is when the idler arm is replaced. The technician did not measure the distance from the chassis to the end of the center link on the driver side, and adjust the passenger side to match. The idler arm mounting holes are slightly larger than the attaching bolts to accomodate adjustment.

Remove the hub assembly and half shaft. Stick a large screwdriver in a rotor cooling fin and rotate the axle to bind the screwdriver in place against the knuckle. Use a breaker bar and a 36mm socket to loosen the axle nut. If the last guy put anti seize on the axle splines, you can push the axle out with your thumb, if not, use a block of wood and a hammer to break it loose from the hub. Be careful not to damage the threads on the axle shaft.

Autozone and Advance auto parts rent the control arm bushing press for free.

Hope this helps.

[ericn1300]

R&R procedures here: http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm

autozone has a free tool loaner program, try to get a real bushing service set. If you don't have an autozone, check around with other chains that may have a simular program. NAPA will usualy do it for you if you take the control arm down there.

[drdd]

All the places around (AZ, OReillys, Advance, Napa) here did not have a control arm bushing press ... they just had a ball joint press which is the right idea, but way too big (I tried it).

It was almost impossible to make a homemade press because the lip of the flange of the control arm was too close to the metal sleeve of the bushing. It couldn't go through the socket ...

Old Master, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by measuring from the chassis to the center link ... do you mean a vertical measurement? or, a horizontal measurement from the frame rail inward?

So when I get it back together, should I use a small level on the center link and adjust the idler arm in its slots?

I'll take the hub and half-shaft out tomorrow. My Haynes didn't mention this step -- I was hoping I'd be lucky and there was some trick but, it looks like no ...

Originally Posted by old_master

Lotta questions, I'll see what I can do.

Bump steer is caused by the center link not being level in the vehicle. Other than being bent, the only time this occurs is when the idler arm is replaced. The technician did not measure the distance from the chassis to the end of the center link on the driver side, and adjust the passenger side to match. The idler arm mounting holes are slightly larger than the attaching bolts to accomodate adjustment.

Remove the hub assembly and half shaft. Stick a large screwdriver in a rotor cooling fin and rotate the axle to bind the screwdriver in place against the knuckle. Use a breaker bar and a 36mm socket to loosen the axle nut. If the last guy put anti seize on the axle splines, you can push the axle out with your thumb, if not, use a block of wood and a hammer to break it loose from the hub. Be careful not to damage the threads on the axle shaft.

Autozone and Advance auto parts rent the control arm bushing press for free.

Hope this helps.

[old_master]

To measure/adjust the center link:

With the wheels straight ahead, measure vertically from the center of both of the inner tie rod end studs up to the frame. If the measurements are different, loosen both of the idler arm attaching bolts, adjust the height of the center link on the right side to match the left side, and retighten the bolts. If an adjustment is made, it will affect toe and an alignment will be necessary to keep tire wear at a minimum.

[drdd]

thanks for all your help old master. I'll do those measurements when I get it all back together.


Here's where I'm at in trying to replace my control arm bushings ...

1) got everything apart except the lower ball joint. I got the joint seperated, there just wasn't room to pull it out due to the halfshaft. Now I have to remove the hub and halfshaft to get everything separated.

2) I can't get the axle nut to break loose because there is to much play in all directions (remember the upper and lower control arms are disconnected

3) So, I have a local shop press in new upper control arm bushings and I reinstall the upper control arm thinking that this will stabilize the suspension enough for me to get a pry bar on the hub threads and break that axle nut loose.

4) still, the axle nut won't loosen. I've tried hours of PB Blaster, a three foot breaker bar, a heavy duty prybar ...

5) what do I do now? ... 1) buy an impact wrench? 2) reassemble everything, remove jacks, and put the full weight of the truck on the ground -- then try breaking the axle nut?

any other ideas?

this thing has been apart for two days !

Originally Posted by old_master

To measure/adjust the center link:

With the wheels straight ahead, measure vertically from the center of both of the inner tie rod end studs up to the frame. If the measurements are different, loosen both of the idler arm attaching bolts, adjust the height of the center link on the right side to match the left side, and retighten the bolts. If an adjustment is made, it will affect toe and an alignment will be necessary to keep tire wear at a minimum.

[blazes9395]

Get a torch and put some heat on just the nut. This might do the trick. I have used this method many of times of rusted bolts/nuts. Heat it up and giv eit a shot then.

[drdd]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I tried propane and mapp gas 3 or 4 times today. Still, it didn't break loose ...

Originally Posted by blazes9395

Get a torch and put some heat on just the nut. This might do the trick. I have used this method many of times of rusted bolts/nuts. Heat it up and giv eit a shot then.

[old_master]

Just for the record... the axle threads are right hand on both sides of the vehicle and the nuts take a 36mm deep socket. An impact gun is an excellent choice, air or electric. Both can be expensive. There is a tool called an impact driver and a 1/2" drive socket will plug right on to it. Hold the driver with one hand and a large hammer in the other. A few good cracks should break it loose. Most auto parts stores have the impact driver and they're usually under $20. Might be worth a try. While you're at the parts store, pick up a can of anti seize, (made by Permatex) and slob it on all of the threads so next time things will come apart easily. Hope this helps.

[drdd]

what! the threads are "right hand"?

are you saying it's NOT "righty-tighty-lefty-loosie" ??

have I been beating the hell out of it in the wrong direction all day?

Originally Posted by old_master

Just for the record... the axle threads are right hand on both sides of the vehicle and the nuts take a 36mm deep socket. An impact gun is an excellent choice, air or electric. Both can be expensive. There is a tool called an impact driver and a 1/2" drive socket will plug right on to it. Hold the driver with one hand and a large hammer in the other. A few good cracks should break it loose. Most auto parts stores have the impact driver and they're usually under $20. Might be worth a try. While you're at the parts store, pick up a can of anti seize, (made by Permatex) and slob it on all of the threads so next time things will come apart easily. Hope this helps.

[AJT1961]

>>what! the threads are "right hand"?
are you saying it's NOT "righty-tighty-lefty-loosie" ??
have I been beating the hell out of it in the wrong direction all day?<<<


You are beating it in the correct direction. "Right hand" threads ARE "righty-tighty-lefty-loosie". Old Master mentioned that both sides have right hand threads because some vehicles have left-hand threads on the left side of the vehicle -- left hand threads are the opposite -- lefty-tighty-righty-loosie. The theory behind some vehicles having left-hand threads on the left side of the vehicle is so that the rotation of the axle does not loosen the axle nut.

[Sparky1349]

Originally Posted by AJT1961

>>what! the threads are "right hand"?
are you saying it's NOT "righty-tighty-lefty-loosie" ??
have I been beating the hell out of it in the wrong direction all day?<<<


You are beating it in the correct direction. "Right hand" threads ARE "righty-tighty-lefty-loosie". Old Master mentioned that both sides have right hand threads because some vehicles have left-hand threads on the left side of the vehicle -- left hand threads are the opposite -- lefty-tighty-righty-loosie. The theory behind some vehicles having left-hand threads on the left side of the vehicle is so that the rotation of the axle does not loosen the axle nut.

Ok, now that you know which way to turn the nut we can talk about how to turn it. The obvious answer is to go to your local rental center and rent an electric impact wrench.

If you want to try the cheap method first - you want to stabilize the hub as much as possible, my recommendation put the wheel back on. Then you want to get a friend to hold the wheel for the next part, if you don't have any friends get you wife out there, she can go back to eating bon bons in a few minutes. The next things you need is the longest and strongest breaker bar you can get your hands on, and you need 1 other thing a dead blow hammer. Here is what you want to do: get you helper to hold the tire and wheel assembly in place, place the socket and breaker bar on the nut, then hit the breaker bar hard with the dead blow (so the nut turns in the right direction). You may want to get another friend or another wife to hold the breaker bar, only because the bar wants to spring back after you hit it. Note: ONLY USE A DEAD BLOW HAMMER! I don't want to be responsible if some piece of metal flies off and kills somebody because you decided to use a sledge hammer instead. You can generate a huge instantaneous torque this way but it is a short duration so the initia of the component will keep it from just twisting the component instead of twisting the nut. We used this method to break loose the red loctited flywheel bolts on the hemi motor at the track when nothing else would break them loose not even a 1/2" drive air impact (used a 3/4" impact at the shop).

Good luck, let me know what method you use.

Sparky

[muddog321]

As you now know and for all others, step one when the CV axle nut needs to come off, is before you jack the vehicle up, loosen the 36mm nut and you often need to use a long cheater bar to break it loose if original.

So now what - I'd say the replace both CV axles with rebuilts when all apart now so you should be able to lock onto the backside of the CV axle with a pipe wrench or some large thing and then get the nut off. After all the heat and hitting those hubs are also trash so do not waste all your man hours putting old ones back on - after 100-125K replace if off thats all the effort, same with CVs - been there done that and nothing pisses you off as getting all together and done then CV leaks or hub grates! So if you do all then good for another 80-100k and a nice tight feeling wheel.

Once the control arm bushings are done and you did all the ball joints, then possible sway bar bushings and on all my 4wds the idle arm was the sloopy one by 80-100k as no one seems to grease that front zerk!

[old_master]

The bolts that go through the upper control arm bushings have cams on them. Those bolts/cams is where camber and caster adjustments are made during a wheel alignment. Try to get them as close as possible to the positions they were in before you took it apart. When you're all done, check and adjust chassis ride height THEN get the front end aligned. If you need the procedure and spec for ride height just ask.