Which Intake Gasket have you used?

[Nitro23]

I just did my first Lower Intake Gasket repair. I used the updated GM gasket.

However, I was at a local car parts store, which also has their own garage and they were really talking up the Felpro gasket. They claim to have never had a return customer with the Felpro. It's also $80. The Victor is $60. So they ask the customer prior to the repair which one they want. I assume that what they are saying is the Victor is not as good?

My question to the community is which gasket is everyone using and what kind of results have you seen?

['97ventureowner]

I used the GM replacement gasket back in August '02 and so far, so good. I've put more miles on the van with the new gaskets than the originals. I have heard good things about the Fel Pro gaskets as well. Over the years, I have used different aftermarket manufacturer's gaskets,( valve cover, intake,exhaust, oil pan,etc.) and really like the Fel Pros overall. When it came to replacing my intake on the Venture, I had heard that GM just released a "revised" gasket for repair and went with those thinking that they had found a way to correct the issue, and it was OEM. In that situation, I decided to stick with the GM gaskets. I don't think any aftermarket versions were available in my area at that time, and I remember the dealer even had trouble keeping them in stock as they were backordered on me. It all comes down to personal preference. I like A C Delco and GM products in my GM vehicles, but will also use Fel Pro as a backup where and when necessary, ( their prices are also reasonable too.)

[cdru]

Someone said the OEM gasket is made by Felpro. I have no idea if that is true or not. I'd recommend either Felpro or the GM gasket as I've had experiences with both. That doesn't mean another brand is better or worse though.

[DRW1000]

I have to do the intake gasket this weekend on my 99. I plan to use all GM stuff. I had the gaskets changed under the original warranty but I don't think the new design was out then. I will refill with DEXCOOL too. I'm still deciding what other items I will change while in there. Spark plugs of course.

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

I have to do the intake gasket this weekend on my 99. I plan to use all GM stuff. I had the gaskets changed under the original warranty but I don't think the new design was out then. I will refill with DEXCOOL too. I'm still deciding what other items I will change while in there. Spark plugs of course.

I'd also replace the radiator cap. One problem reported was air infiltration into the cooling systems and the culprit turned out to be the radiator cap. The seal had eroded, letting air into the cooling system.

[shooter_va]

There was also a TSB that came out last year for new intake bolts.

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by shooter_va

There was also a TSB that came out last year for new intake bolts.

Thanks for mentioning that, I meant to post that earlier but forgot. The part numbers you'll need are 11588914 for the long bolts and 11588915 for the short bolts. These bolts come from GM with pre applied thread locking compound.

[DRW1000]

Just completed the gaskets on my 99. What were they thinking? That was about 5 times more complicated then it should have been. There are so many areas for failure in the assembly and very difficult to get to. I was surprised it fired up right away. It took me about 15 hours.

-I did not remove the back rocker cover - just the top bolts
-I had to remove the fuel rail
-I had to move steering pump out of the way.
-I had to remove the EGR valve even though the guy at parts told me I wouldn't need to.

Must have tools
-metric sockets, wrenches, ratcheting wrenches (10 mm)
Used a lot of 10mm, 8 mm and I think 13mm and 14 mm
- 10 mm crow's foot
- torque wrench
- digital camera - saved me 2 times.
- RTV

GM charged me a fortune for parts. (Canadian dollars)
gasket kit - $140
oil ring - $17
Spark plugs - $15 per
Bolts - $10 - 12 per
EGR gaskets - $25

This was the worst job I have ever done. Much more difficult to get to then it should be. I didn't appreciate the humour of the push rod weaving either. GM must be making a killing on this. I didn't think my gaskets looked that bad. I can't say that Dex-cool damaged them. If anything I thought that the short bolts just didn't stay torqued. They weren't that snug. I had the gasket changed in 2000 or 01 under warranty. I think back then they re-used the bolts. I don't think the TSB I read from 2003 stated to replace them either. I didn't see any blue or red on them but they were very dirty and I did not look that closely. I think they also used the convential torque sequence. The new torque sequence that came with the gaskets is to fully torque the top four (long) bolts and then the short side bolts. The new bolts have lock-tite pre applied. The gasket's instructions listed bolt numbers (11588914 and 11488915) but I was told that one has since been superceded by a new number ( I will post the numbers tomorrow). I even called him back this morning to make sure and he looked it up.

I did not replace the oil o-ring, or coolant line o-rings, even though I had them (but didn't know it until after) but I might go back and remove the throttle body to get to them and get the thermostat too. I never had access to the rear plugs. I even had the engine rotated a bit - this never seemed to help and I assembled with one of the engine mounts re-attached. I will change the plugs another time and return the valve cover gaskets I didn't use.

[Sparky1349]

How did you get the back IMG out and back in without removing the back rocker cover to loosen the rocker arms (and removing the push rods)? By not removing the back rocker cover you definitly save a lot of time not having to remove the alternator and alternator mounting bracket.

I don't think if your that far into it, that it is that much additional work to change to back spark plugs. The coil pack has to come off anyway (2 Bolts on the top Intake Manifold and 2 nuts on studs in the back of the motor) so that allows almost perfect access to the back plugs.

Add to your tool list a ratcheting tie down to rock the engine forward to get at the stuff on the back of the engine. Another suggestion is a box of latex gloves, a big help when you want clean hands to grab a small nut or wire.

At almost $350 Canadian I think you definitly got ripped off, I paid about $150 US for everything including all gaskets, fuel injector o-rings, loctite, plugs, plug wires, oil & Filter, Coolant, engine degreaser, carb cleaner and a 6mmX1mm tap (cross threaded one of the rckr cvr screws). I don't know if they ship to Canada but you may want to try www.rockauto.com. I didn't actually buy from rockauto because the new Advance Auto Parts by me matched the prices I got online. Used Felpro Gaskets and didn't change the bolts, I just wire brushed them and bought a tube of blue loctite.

['97ventureowner]

I have a number of TSB and other useful webpages "Bookmarked" that I have come across the internet over the years that I have found to be useful and informative. I have this one which may be of some help to those doing the dreaded intake job:
http://aklr.free.fr/envrac/GM_3.1_3.4_TB.pdf . This has the tightening sequence and torque specs for the bolts .
The new part number that supersedes 11588914 is 11609991 and is roughly $5.76 ea. The other part number 11588915 has not changed, that price is roughly $4.94 ea. The gasket number als is still the same and is roughly $62.74. I have an associate who works at a Chevrolet dealer parts counter and he told me everytime they get an "updated" price list on parts, the gasket's price has increased EVERYTIME. ( No wonder, GM knows they have a highly sought after part, so why not increase the price as often as they can)

[DRW1000]

Originally Posted by Sparky1349

How did you get the back IMG out and back in without removing the back rocker cover to loosen the rocker arms (and removing the push rods)? By not removing the back rocker cover you definitly save a lot of time not having to remove the alternator and alternator mounting bracket.

I used a ground offset crow's foot.

Originally Posted by Sparky1349

I don't think if your that far into it, that it is that much additional work to change to back spark plugs. The coil pack has to come off anyway (2 Bolts on the top Intake Manifold and 2 nuts on studs in the back of the motor) so that allows almost perfect access to the back plugs.

I will remove the coil pack when I do my plugs

Originally Posted by Sparky1349

Add to your tool list a ratcheting tie down to rock the engine forward to get at the stuff on the back of the engine. Another suggestion is a box of latex gloves, a big help when you want clean hands to grab a small nut or wire.

At almost $350 Canadian I think you definitly got ripped off, I paid about $150 US for everything including all gaskets, fuel injector o-rings, loctite, plugs, plug wires, oil & Filter, Coolant, engine degreaser, carb cleaner and a 6mmX1mm tap (cross threaded one of the rckr cvr screws). I don't know if they ship to Canada but you may want to try www.rockauto.com. I didn't actually buy from rockauto because the new Advance Auto Parts by me matched the prices I got online. Used Felpro Gaskets and didn't change the bolts, I just wire brushed them and bought a tube of blue loctite.

Yeah I could have went for a non OEM part for a lot less and I would for anything "bolt on" but when I am doing this much work I wanted to stick with the GM parts. I assume they will have the latest changes. Even though I have heard that Felpro makes the GM kits. They just aren't being very loyal to their customers by profiting so much from this flaw. My actual parts in CDN $:

- Gasket kit 89017279 - $121.75
- Short bolts 11588915 - $ 10.00/per
- Long bolts 11609991 - $ 11.65/per
- EGR gasket 24506439 - $11.93
- EGR gasket 10241048 - $9.98

[cdru]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

I used a ground offset crow's foot.

That wouldn't get you around the fact that the push rods go through the gasket. You have to remove the push rods in order to install the gasket without modifying the gasket. How did you do this?

[Sparky1349]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

I used a ground offset crow's foot.



I will remove the coil pack when I do my plugs



Yeah I could have went for a non OEM part for a lot less and I would for anything "bolt on" but when I am doing this much work I wanted to stick with the GM parts. I assume they will have the latest changes. Even though I have heard that Felpro makes the GM kits. They just aren't being very loyal to their customers by profiting so much from this flaw. My actual parts in CDN $:

- Gasket kit 89017279 - $121.75
- Short bolts 11588915 - $ 10.00/per
- Long bolts 11609991 - $ 11.65/per
- EGR gasket 24506439 - $11.93
- EGR gasket 10241048 - $9.98

Is this right? Can you loosen the 2 or 3 rockers with an offset wrench to get the push rods that go through the gasket out? Torquing the rocker to spec. would be a nightmare, but then again, it might be worth it. This is either ingenious or insanity! That would have saved me hours! Mine's all back together so I can't verify or argue with this approach

My Actual Costs US$

IMG Felpro MS90565 $42.79
Rocker Cvr Gasket Felpro $10.12
Thermostat Stant $5.04
EGR Gskt $3.16 (Wrong Part this is going back)
Ign Wires XactFit $17.77
Spark Plugs AC Delco $5.08 ea
Fuel Inj O-rings Felpro 15780908 $6.80

Misc. stuff, coolant, oil, degreaser, loctite etc... $25.00

Again, most of these prices where at Advance Auto Parts matching the RockAuto.com online prices. The quote I got from Advance Auto Parts w/o the price match was about $50 higher.

I seriously question the need for new bolts. I wire brushed mine & cleaned them with Brake Clean and applied Blue Loctite. Had to make sure the threads in the cylinder head were clean (used Brake Clean and compressed air.)

I agree with the comment that GM is F---ing over their customers by charging so much for the gaskets when it is a known design defect!

[Sparky1349]

Well, I got everything back together. I tried to start it on Wednesday night but it wouldn't fire, checked for spark---No spark, damn it! To make a long story short, the crank sensor connecter was hiding under the throttle body. Had to take the top of the intake off to get at it. Well after about 3 hours it is all back together. When it first fired up, man did the engine make a bunch of noise till the lifters pumped up.

Anyway, here is my question -- what is the best way to fill the cooling system? There are 2 bleeders one on the thermistat housing and one on the heater bypass on the water pump. Should I fill the system with the bleeders open or should I run the engine and open the bleeders with the engine running. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Sparky.

[7T9Shark]

Fill the cooling system up, start the engine, and open both bleeders. As the engine warms up, you'll eventually see them start to spit and sputter. When the streams become steady, close them off and re-fill the radiator as required.

I just finished doing the intake gasket on my Lumina. This forum was very helpuful in pointing out things to watch out for. Took me two afternoons for a total time of ~9 hours.

It might be helpful for someone who hasn't done this task to know that it is not necessary to rotate the engine, remove the coil pack, or the rear valve cover to do this job. I removed only the two coil pack bracket bolts that hold it to the upper intake casting, then removed only the top two valve cover gaskets, and the lower intake was easily removed by lifting it from the front, then rotating it out from under the valve cover gasket.

Overall, a thankless job, but worth the $700 I saved in labor. Best advice I can give is take it slow an thoughtfully, taking photos of what it looks like before removing and unplugging connections, etc.