Head Cylinder Repair

[Isilo 97]

I Thought I Did A Good Job Removing The Heads (becoz My Car Was Overheating AND finally swallowing to the oil pan any coolant I poured into the system) And Pressure Testing Them - Good. Installed New Gasket Kit And New Pump(old One - Fins Were Gone) Only To Fail To Top Up The Cooling System, Seemed To Have The Same Problem Of Leaking Into The Oil Pan. I Have Not Investigated The Cause Coz I Was Too Disappointed After Having Put So Much Work Using The Hanes Manual. Reasearch On Line Has Brought Me To The Experts On Line. Some Have Mentioned Freeze Plugs - How Do I Replace These. Please Advise On Next Solution. I Believe The Motor Is Still Good Since It Was Disassembled In A Drivable Condition.

[Isilo 97]

Managed to start the engine but new oil comes out of exhaust,

[jjh1976]

did you check the cylinder sleves they can crack at the bottom so when the piston moves down it will expose the crack momenterally. thats what it sounds like to me a cracked cylinder sleeve.

[Isilo 97]

No. Sleeves? Can you explain, this is my first major job on an engine.

[Huney1]

Sleeves refers to the cylinder walls where the rings ride up and down also known as the combustion chamber walls, but I don't see how that would put water in your oil. Sleeves usually refers to replacable diesel cylinder sleeves.This is a DUH statement, but somewhere the coolant is leaking into the oil through the head gaskets or the block has a crack in the coolant passages allowing the coolant to get in the oil. If there is a big crack in the cylinder wall then water could feasably get through it into the oil, but surely you would have noticed it when you honed the cylinders. Did you remove the pistons and install new rings, check the wrist pins, new rod and main bearings, etc? Or was all you did what we call a, "top end job?"

"Managed to start the engine but new oil comes out of exhaust,"
Hmmm . . . It would take a great deal of oil to run out the exhaust like that and this is a very remote possibility, . . . almost sounds like somebody forgot to put rings on a piston or two, or the valve guides aren't sealing letting oil run down the valve stem into the combustion chamber. Oil is not compressable and if you get to much in a cylinder it could bust a piston, so be real careful there.

"Some Have Mentioned Freeze Plugs - How Do I Replace These." Instructions here:
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d8004ba0d.jsp


Freeze Plug
Freeze Plug Operation: Replaceable, round, presized, cup-shaped metal plugs inserted on the outside of the engine block to seal off water jackets and prevent coolant from leaking out of the block. Notice it says, "outside of the engine block." Some go outside the engine block and inside known as core plugs and if the core plug leaks it can mix coolant with oil. Outside they're on the the engine block and if they're leaking you'll find a puddle of water under the engine. Core plugs are a different matter so read the article/link I gave you all the way through.

We have some real pros here so stand by and let them diagnose your problem because frankly I'm stumped as to exactly what could be causing it. By the way, you said this is your first overhaul. Did you watch someone do one or was an experienced mechainc overseeing your work or did you go at it alone? Did you use a calibrated torque wrench and torque the heads to the exact torque spec and in the right torque pattern?

If not, that could be the answer for water in the oil, but I still don't understand how that much volume of oil is blowing out the exaust. Something is BAD wrong there. DUH.

[jjh1976]

the coolant flows around the cylinders. the block has steel sleeves preesed in. if a sleeve cracks the coolant that flows the around the cylinders to keep them cool can leak into the combustion chamber and start leaking past the rings and mx with the oil thats how they mix

[Isilo 97]

Thanks Huney1, 'I catch your drift`. I did this top overhaul on my own guided by a manual and yes its my first one, I am using my experiance on Aircraft Avionics only. I am trying to avoid the cost of garage repair estimated at $2.5K OR junking the car. So far I have used close to $185 only on consumables and gasket set. I also suspect the valve seals could be messed up since I only removed the complete heads, sent them for pressure and flatness testing, cleaned off the original gaskets remains and reassembled the heads and manifolds( of course with new gaskets and torqued down using the manual specs - sequence). By the way its true I am getting oil out of the exhuast for real - not water. Thanks for the advice, I have to open the engine again to investigste the oil leak, may be start by checking which spark plugs are wet and then trace the source of the problem. I hope its a minor repair needed since I managed to start the engine. Can I reuse the gaskets especially the head cylinder gaskets, since they have not been heated up by the engine, it only ran for 2 to 2.5 minutes only and hopefully not damaged by the torquing.

[Isilo 97]

Thanks jjh1976 - Sorry its only oil so far I am exhausting - can you advise on this one.

[jjh1976]

it sounds like the head gasket may have been put on backwards and allowing oil from the passage to be pumped into the cylinder. there are holes cut out in the head gasket so oil will flow from the block to the head. pull the heads and check the orientation of the head gaskets. and when the heads are tourqued that compresses the gasket. so technically it should be replaced.

[Isilo 97]

Thanks jjh1976. The gaskets I fitted are marked to show the UP side when installing and I am confident I did that However I will open and confirm. I am still psyching myself up for the job once again. Oce again thanks for your help, I believe there is some life in this motor. I will update you guys on this one, I am also interested to find out the outcome.

[Isilo 97]

Pulled out the spark plugs and the one for piston or ch # 1 is oily. This is the one which leaked the coolant after overheating before I opened it first. I am only going to open the rear cylinder head to trouble shoot. What do yu guys think for a start.

[jjh1976]

that would be a good start. pull the front plugs and make sure they are burning good and not oiled up if the front plugs are good you might not need to pull that head

[Isilo 97]

I also pulled the front plugs but they look dry but since I did not run the engine for long they are black I suppose since the combustion is still not perfectand the mixtures maybe are stillto be sensed and computerised for a more economic mixture and hence good burn in the chambers. But I am scared and I hope the block surface is flat, well my mind is taking me places trying to fix this. Thanks jjh1976

[Isilo 97]

assembled the engine twice with no success, still getting water in the exhaust and the engine idling speed rough - spark plugs misfiring(because of water ingestion. Took the head to the repair shop - they pressure tested it and confirmed flatness good except for one insignificantly low point. How ever after being shown some heads and the quality of the finish on the surfaces I decided to get it re-surfaced($25). I showed them the two failed gaskets I had removed but could not advise anything. I noticed that the prints on the gaskets caused by the torquing faded as you approach the centre of the cylinders - meaning that the low points are away from the bolt areas, so I cleaned with emery paper the high areasand assembled the engine and carefully idled it at low revs untill hot with no major issues. Yes water did come out at first but the idle was normal, this was from previous leaks and it cleared later on wit the smoke. the cooling is very good and maintaining the same temp at different drive levels. I got caught in heavy traffic for almost 1 and 1/2 hrs moving a few ft per minute, and managed to drive home with no problems. Checked coolant and oil level and quality the next morning - no losses were observed.

But I dont know for how long it will hold, but so far so good. I dare say I am surprised and above all excited at the turn of events. Now I get a minor tatatatatatataaaaaaa and squeeky sound(not belt) when idling after starting from a cold situation. Though this sound disappears after idling for a few minutes. The hot idle is silent and smooth. I also temporarily get the low pressure oil light on when stopping after accelerating.
Could it be a failing oil pump or I should move to a thicker oil 10w30 to 10w40?
Any ideas

[Huney1]

Going to a heavier oil won't help so stay with 5-20. If the gaskets are showing leakage then that's the problem because if the head and block are true and you use the right torque sequence on the head bolts there is no reason for them to leak. Still stumped on that one so let me get back to work. I'll continue to ponder it and if I come up with anything else I'll let you know.