96 Metro/Firefly chassis rust can someone give an opinion if salvageable?

[sbellerby]

Hey there not sure how to describe the rust above what i think is a control arm (the triangle that hinges and goes out to the wheel) it's rotted right through in some spots, though frame doesn't seem to wiggle, drives fine and appears not to bend/move a bit even when i jump up and down on the bumper.

It's in the fat sort of A lookng frame, right below the hole for the drive axle and hole for the steering mechanism.

So i've posted pix and will be very very VERY appreciative of all replies that can help me figger out if my baby is salvageable

feel free to directly reply to sbellerby at aol dot com if easier.

thanks in advance

pix are at picturetrail

starting with
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...10&uid=4454085


or if you have any trouble with the link...
picturetrail.com
then member
sbellerby
thanks thanks THANKS

[Crvett69]

thats getting pretty bad, i would have to say scrap it. main part you want to check is where a arm bolts to the body

[sbellerby]

Hey thanks...do you think it can fold up soon or is it like a "keep an eye on it" situation? When it does, is it likely DANGEROUS or just a tow to the scrapyard?

[frets14]

This is just what I would do... I realize that not everyone has the same equipment, work space and abilities so you may not want to try this yourself. Given the location of the rust holes and the fact that there doesn't seem to be any cracking in the area that holds the A arm to the chassis (I assume that because the car runs and drives true on the highway), I would MIG weld some new metal in the rusted out areas. I've done it before on some different cars and gotten the approval of the mechanic working on the vehicle regarding its safety and durability. However, keep in mind that welding and fabrication are a part of my regular job as a Millwright in a factory. It may be a little more than what you might want to attempt at home. Still, I hate to see a good Metro get scrapped until it's absolutely necessary. Best of luck... Steve

[sbellerby]

I posted some new and much better pix of the frame rot near what I think is called the control arm...

As the welder above pointed out or suspected (thanks so much for your opinion) the underside is in great shape and it's just rotted out ABOVE the control arm mount. There's like a quarter inch thick slab of metal sticking out to which a repair can be welded, if I can just find the right welder.

Any additional insights (I cleaned up the area, got right under and got much better pictures) would be very much appreciated. Car's been my pride and joy, carting hang gliders to Tennessee and leaping up dirt roads as only a 1600 pound car can!

Please any and everyone who's done anything like this to any car...or knows how it should be done...leave your two cents' worth and help me save my car. 5 years and nothing but oil changes and tire balances!
Can't beat this beater!

Again pix of the situation are at
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...4085&members=1

and if you've any trouble with the link it's just
picturetrail.com
then member
sbellerby
- Thankful Steve in Toronto

[GM Line Rat]

That's some serious rotting out of the sub frame, not to mention the lower control arms themselves are starting to rot away too.....Myself, I would be VERY Concerned about the safety of that vehicle!!! If it's rotted thru that bad in the subframe....you can bet it's starting to rot thru further up in area's you cant see.....yet! Road salt and these cars dont go together well at all!

[DanMan7]

I don't know about any of you but, honestly, that's some of the worst rust I've ever seen on an underside of a car. I haven't seen many cars with rust here in California, but from looking at those pictures, I really would not want to drive that car. I don't see much metal at all that can be welded to. If there is metal that can be welded to, there's probably too much rust around the perimeter of that area that would not allow it to last very long.

Just my $0.02. Good luck if you're able to do anything with it though.

[sbellerby]

Seems like this is pretty serious in terms of safety and I hope to have it welded up pronto.

Have one 300 mile trip to make meantime...guess I'll be limping it along.

Any hints? Like don't brake hard unnecessarily and don't go over 55 but anything else?

Thanks for your time and inputs...4.5 years without more than an oil change, so I really want to save this car, even just for another year or two.

Stephen

[way]

Perhaps you'd be better off to look around for an $800 Metro with a body in better condition and swap your motor over as well as any new parts?

A custom chassis welder brings to mind any number of possibilites.

Presuming he knows what he's doing, make sure you get every single weld undercoated to prevent them from rusting. Those welds will be the strength of your control arm. Check the welds periodically, like every oil change. You might also want to check the rear of the car. You don't want to go through all this and find out the rear is just as bad.

Replace the control arm or arms obviously. It just might be that after the $800 for the welding, the cost of the control arms etc, you might be able to buy a used Metro on Ebay or Craigslist or cars.com that's in better shape for the same money.

Do not take any hard turns on your 300 mile trip or any trip, keep the speed down on corners. Wear your seat belt.

Also I wouldn't resell the car to anyone else.

Good luck with it. Just my

[sbellerby]

Thanks everyone for your help in this difficult decision...I'm still in a sort of a holding pattern going back and forth between scrapping it, and having the framework done by a custom frame (dragster folks) shop that has done "many many" of these metros and knew exactly where all the rust was.

It's big bucks but the rest of the car's body is in great shape and the back end looks just fine. Maybe some exhaust work in the relatively near future but not much else I can see...and I've never had a car (even my old japanese-built Sprint) that was as reliable. Never refused to start in almost 5 years and I did nothing but oil changes.

So I might look for a stopgap measure that buys me a few months to find the ideal blown motor swap out car, if motor swapping can be reliably done.

Thanks again for all posts and any other thoughts that occur.

STephen

[chadzeilenga]

Hello Stephen,
I'm in a similar Situation. Thought I was getting a good deal on the 95 Metro I picked up for $300? but it has lower control arm rust. I was surprised cause the rest of the car is pretty rust free.
I think I'm going to pick up one of those control arm connectors, and then weld up what's left of my control arm mounts. I'm interested in how your repair is going. Do you have any updated pictures?

Thanks,
Chad

[mtran2000]

I would advise against taking a 300 mile trip with rust like that. If it snaps going 55 MPH you could be in serious danger. I would rent a car for the trip.

Originally Posted by sbellerby

Seems like this is pretty serious in terms of safety and I hope to have it welded up pronto.

Have one 300 mile trip to make meantime...guess I'll be limping it along.

Any hints? Like don't brake hard unnecessarily and don't go over 55 but anything else?

Thanks for your time and inputs...4.5 years without more than an oil change, so I really want to save this car, even just for another year or two.

Stephen

[gasenvy]

I've just completed a rebuilding of the rusted A arms mountson my 95 small block 5 speed Geo Metro I used steel rods and epoxy to repair the damage. First I removed all rust and clean the inside of the rotten area. I used a product call POR-15 that you can paint or spray on metal that seals the rust forever. I bought POR-15 off the internet. It come in a kit with a prewash, a galvanizer and the "paint". This stuff is ROCKHARD. I thinks it's liquid teflon. Well, anyway I stuffed "U" shaped rods inside the hollow opening and then used about 40, yes 40 of those epoxy stick you can buy anyware, I bought them a Menard for about $3 per. Then I painted the outside of the A arms and the mount with the POR_15 aswell. The instructions that came with the kits say that it will STRENGTHEN WITH MOISTURE. It took about 3 hour per side and about $180 to repair. This car wouldn't last the winter, I live in the Chicago metro area. This is my 5 metro purchase in the last 2 years. Good Metro without problems like this are VERY scarce in the midwest. That why I decided to test this idea out.

Gasenvy

[leonbentz]

I would not bother fixing it. I would just strip it of all the good parts you want and send the rest packin'. This is serios business and should not be tampered with. A Geo Metro is nothing more than a recycled beer can on wheels. Don't get me wrong here. I like the little boogers and happen to own two of them. The bottom line is: They are built with as little metal as possible, so any there, that is compromised with rust, should be scrapped, IMMEDIATELY, if not sooner. Your life is not worth taking the risk. Just to show how much I like the little bastards, I have a '91 4dr with 205,000 and it runs like a scalded owl still, eventhough the cylinders give a different compression reading. I recently acquired a '96 4dr with 160,000 and it still rides like a caddy, eventhough the lower control arms needed new grommets. The '91 body style is a better car, all around if you want something more reliable and less prone to breakdowns.

Honda vs. Geo Metro: "Why spend a lot of money for a good car, when you can spend a little money for one"

My '91 is getting a JDM tranny and a reconditioned engine, this summer, so mayber I can log in another 250,000 on it. My '96 4dr will be up to trade, for a nice reliable, gas guzzling 1 ton pickup. No hurry, just as long as you get your truck here, by the time firewood season gets here.