97 Grand Voyager Fuel Pressure Probems

BrianZ64 · #1 03-24-2007, 10:46 AM

OK I am asking for HELP....... I own a 97 Grand Voyager with a 3.3 Litre and 181,000 miles. I bought it brand new. It has been a Fantastic vehicle aside from changing breaks like eating skittles.
I recently (Month and a half ago) was rear ended which I havent fixed yet it caused medium damage to the rear lift gate (cant Open). I have had a problem stemming a couple weeks after. I will be driving and the engine withh start dying out eventually stalling completely. The first time this happen it would not restart. Took it to Pep-Boys and they replaced $600 of parts ( Fuel Pump and did a tune-up and injection servicing. This seemed to fix it until my return from another State this week. Same thing happened only it didnt completely die out, I limped into a garage who said they put it on a computer and it was the O2 Sensor and Catalytic Converter which I had replaced ($450). 20 Miles more down the highway same thing. This time the mechanic did a fuel pressure reading on the Fuel Rail and it was 19-25 lbs. He said it should be 49 lbs according to the book and that I once again need a new Fuel Pump. So I was cussing because I already had it changed. But had them do it again and give me the old part. ($397.00). I got 2 hours further down the road to home and the very next day SAME THING it dies out while driving down the road. There is NO pressure up on the fuel rail I checked. So I had it towed.
OK Here is my question is there a Emergency cut off switch or something that would cause it to appear as though the Fuel pump is faulty when it isnt.? I tried turning the key on and listening for the Fuel Pump to wine but only heard an extremly quick electro-mechanical sound from the rear. I also pulled up the carpeting in the back and checked the wiring I can see to insure nothing was damaged in the accident. If this was a kinked fuel line why would it work then not work? I wa also wondering what the Automatic ShutDown system does or how to check it. Im out of money and at my witts end can someone offer suggestion as to what to check?
Please E-Mail me I need to know where to steer the Mechanic whom I dont know. [email protected]

Thank You

ronmar1 · #2 03-24-2007, 11:21 AM

There is an emergency shut off relay under the hood in the power distribution center. If it shuts down the engine you won't be able to limp it anywhere. It will be completely dead. There is also a fuel pump relay in there, but again if it fails, you're not going anywhere. If either fail you will not hear the fuel pump start when the switch is turned on.

Have you changed the fuel filter? That sounds more like the problem you describe. Also you have a fuel pressure relay on the fuel rail that controls the fuel pressure, but usually it doesn't fail intermitently. The accident could have dis-lodged some dirt rust and particles in the gas tank. The fuel pump has a small screen on the pick-up that could be getting clogged. As long as suction is there the particles might be picked up and block the screen. Jar them loose and you'll be st to go again till the cycle starts again.

Just some ideas.

I think I would be hounding the repair shops that are throwing your money at the problem, instead of repairing it. Do they not stand behind their work?

Ron

BrianZ64 · #3 03-24-2007, 12:34 PM

The Fuel Pump has been changed twice and along with it the Fuel Filter. With the accident seeming to start these problems I am wondering if there is a Safety switch either under the hood or in the back that would be the culprit. While on the side of the road I swapped around the fuses and relays dealing with the Fuel Pump and the Auto Shutoff. This did nothing.
What exactly does the Auto Shutoff do?? Could this be the problem? HELP ME PLEASE.. !!!!!

jsinton · #4 03-24-2007, 01:11 PM

When you change the fuel pump, your also supposed to clean the fuel tank. Having an accident like that could have dislodged a lot of gunk. I agree, I would take it back to Pepboys. Another thing you could do is take off the fuel filter and blow through it to see if it's clogged. You could drop the fuel tank yourself, as it's been down twice so it should be easy to unbolt now. Take out the fuel pump and look in there. Do you see gunk? How about the screen on the fuel pump? Is it clogged?

BrianZ64 · #5 03-24-2007, 01:39 PM

The Fuel Filter and Tank arent the problem while there was some sediment in the tank it wasnt major i seen it when the goodyear garage put the 2nd pump in. I am leaning toward the Inertia Switch..... Does anyone know where this switch is located. The pump isnt coming on I dont hear it. That would lead me to beleive something isnt allowing it....aka The Computer (PCM) or the Inertia Switch?

jsinton · #6 03-24-2007, 01:50 PM

Did you try to get the trouble codes? An electrical problem with the fuel system would be detected. Did you mechanic suggest this? I would think that after two fuel pumps, this would be the next logical step. Your looking for an error code 42.

jsinton · #7 03-24-2007, 01:53 PM

See here for more information on trouble codes:

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d801a4140.jsp

BrianZ64 · #8 03-24-2007, 01:53 PM

NO Codes present this time.... The last time there was a code was on my trip back when the Mechanic said the O2 Sensor showed a fault. After consulting a mechanic friend of mine across country he says the fact that the Engine was starving for fuel would have caused the O2 sensor to read faulty. So I dont believe thats the issue either. I have to be careful to rely on the Codes at first I need to find the Inertia Switch so I can insure its good.

ronmar1 · #9 03-24-2007, 03:21 PM

There is no inertia switch. There is a roll over sensor on the top gas tank which shuts down fuel and ignition in the event of a roll over.

The auto shut down will kill the ignition and the fuel pump. Thus no fuel and no fire to the plugs. The thing is, this is not a gradually happening event. If the shut down relay loses command from your PCM, your motor will immediatly shut down if it is running. It's either working or not. You indicate low fuel pressure, this is a sure sign of line, filter or pump blockage. If you were able to "limp" into the shop. That sounds more like lack of sufficent fuel, not fuel shut off. Your vehicle runs until what ever your problem is, completely shuts off your fuel supply.

Believe me if there are any filth in your fuel tank at all, it is too much. It doesn't take much to stop up the fuel pump screen. it is very small.

IMHO
Ron

jsinton · #10 03-24-2007, 10:28 PM

Yes, I have to agree. If you're not getting a trouble codes, and it works for a while, then limps, it really sounds like clogged lines. You get pressure for a while ,then it dies. I would drop the gas tank again, this time clean it. You probably don't need a new pump.

rcdldl · #11 03-27-2007, 10:27 AM

Have you cleaned the egr valve and intake? Had a similar problem on my 97 plymouth voyager, I had them cleaned and it fixed the problem.

BrianZ64 · #12 03-27-2007, 10:32 AM

I have not had my EGR and Intake cleaned. I dont see how this would effect the Fuel Pressure on the Fuel Rail being Zero.

BrianZ64 · #13 04-01-2007, 01:51 AM

OK... The Mechanic says I need my Body Control Module replaced, he says dealership wants $700 for it and he cant find any salvage yards local that have it. Is it true the BCM is $700 ?? Cant I find this through another source other then Dealership? I have checked AutoZone/RockAuto etc ... and none lists the BCM. Anyone have a friend in a dealership that could cut me some slack?

davesexton · #14 04-10-2007, 02:22 PM

Have you found anything yet? I used to work for the dealer and the BCM's were always expensive. I would call a dealer yourself and price one. Also, check E-Bay (make sure it's a reputable seller), and just try searching the net for one.

webbch · #15 04-10-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

There is NO pressure up on the fuel rail I checked.

Quote:

OK... The Mechanic says I need my Body Control Module replaced, he says dealership wants $700 for it and he cant find any salvage yards local that have it

What??? Have you verified for certain that the BCM is causing your fuel pump to NOT operate then? Because other than that, the BCM would be completely unrelated to low fuel pressure.

If it was my van, I would first try to verify that the fuel pump was pumping, and then I think I'd start at the fuel rail and work my way backwards to find the leak that is causing the low fuel pressure situation. If no leaks, then check the screen on the fuel pump to make sure it's not clogged, as others have suggested.

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