Grand Marquis starting nightmare

[Marquisman]

I have a 1996 Grand Marquis. It has 56,000 original miles and has
developed a problem that 3 different mechanics cannot figure out. I bought
the car in August of 2006 and it ran great and looked like new. All was
well until the temperature dropped below 30 degrees. The car would start
then immediately stall, but on the second try would run great. This was
not a big problem, but did not want it to get worse so I took a garage and
they told me it needed new plugs and wires and to replace the air intake
control valve. Well the next day it was the same so I called the garage
and told them and they said they would check it out. They said that maybe
it was the wrong plugs so they put in the OEM recommended brand, but also
free of charge the replace the water temp sensor. That is when the fun
began. The next day it took me 10 minutes almost a dead battery and
finally starting fluid to get the car started. I have since had replace
the mass flow valve, fuel filter, another temp sensor, oxygen sensor, and
thermostat and nothing helps and paid out over $1,000 so far. Please let
me know what to do as if I can get it started and even to get it to stay
running for the distance of 2 blocks after that it runs great,. Now one of
the mechanics suggested a fuel pump and that will cost me over $400 and
not sure if it will help.

[miamibob]

Assuming they put ALL the proper parts in (plugs, etc...), for your model make and year check the thermostat and the fuel pump relay. A good reverse flushing of the coolant system would not hurt. MB

[Marquisman]

According to the garage the right parts are in and they checked the thermostat and right before I bought the car it was supposed to be serviced, but the car dealship was not specific. I will check on the relay and see if that helps as it seems to be a lot cheaper than the fuel pump.

[reekor]

Sounds to me that the garage you have taken the car to is doing nothing more then just throwing parts at the problem, did they say why they want to replace the fuel pump, is the pressure low? A few things like vacuum leaks, stuck open EGR valve, or even a bad coil pack can cause the problem you are dealing with. I would personally take the car to a ford dealer to have them look at it with the proper equipment and training to diagnose the car.

Originally Posted by Marquisman

According to the garage the right parts are in and they checked the thermostat and right before I bought the car it was supposed to be serviced, but the car dealship was not specific. I will check on the relay and see if that helps as it seems to be a lot cheaper than the fuel pump.

[Marquisman]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I first took it to a regular garage and they suggested plugs and wires as there were 3 bad wires and 4 different brands of plugs. Also they suggested replacing the air intake control valve to solve the cold start problem. At first it would stall on the first time, but then start on the second try. When I took it back again they replaced the plugs again with better ones at no charge. Also when they did that the garage replaced the water temp sensor on their own without asking me at no charge. That was the last time it started right as the next morning it took about 5 minutes and starting fluid to get it going. I returned it to the garage and they replaced the temp sensor and the mass flow sensor at no charge just to get me going. After that did not help they took it to a ford garage at their cost to get it checked out and was told it needed a mass flow valve (which the already replaced) and a fuel pump. If I can get it going in the morning after a few tries it runs great after just 2 blocks of driving.[/font]

[reekor]

If you have low fuel pressure, then yeah that could give you a cold start problem.

Originally Posted by Marquisman

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I first took it to a regular garage and they suggested plugs and wires as there were 3 bad wires and 4 different brands of plugs. Also they suggested replacing the air intake control valve to solve the cold start problem. At first it would stall on the first time, but then start on the second try. When I took it back again they replaced the plugs again with better ones at no charge. Also when they did that the garage replaced the water temp sensor on their own without asking me at no charge. That was the last time it started right as the next morning it took about 5 minutes and starting fluid to get it going. I returned it to the garage and they replaced the temp sensor and the mass flow sensor at no charge just to get me going. After that did not help they took it to a ford garage at their cost to get it checked out and was told it needed a mass flow valve (which the already replaced) and a fuel pump. If I can get it going in the morning after a few tries it runs great after just 2 blocks of driving.[/font]

[miamibob]

If it is the Fuel Pump it has to be defective but not bad completely. If it were bad completely your car would NEVER start. The reply to check the Fuel Pressure is the proper way to go. It will tell you what is happening fuel supply wise. If you do the pump I STRONGLY suggest also doing the relay. The labor is minimal and the relay itself should be under $50. Let us know what happens.....MB

P.S. Try to stick to Ford parts, on this issue. They just seem to work better!

[Marquisman]

That is what is so strange as both garages when they checked the fuel pressure the frist time said it was great and now all of a sudden the one says it is a bad pump. It only seems to be when I first try to start the car as if it runs for even 2 minutes after that it is fine. I am going to replace the relay myself tomorrow as it is an easy job and can get one at NAPA for $11 so not much cost if it works or not.

[reekor]

Try this see if it makes a difference. When the car is cold and does not want to start, Turn the key on, engine off and wait for the fuel pump to turn off, then turn the key off and repeat 5 to 8 times then try to start the car.

Originally Posted by Marquisman

That is what is so strange as both garages when they checked the fuel pressure the frist time said it was great and now all of a sudden the one says it is a bad pump. It only seems to be when I first try to start the car as if it runs for even 2 minutes after that it is fine. I am going to replace the relay myself tomorrow as it is an easy job and can get one at NAPA for $11 so not much cost if it works or not.

[Marquisman]

Already tried that as it was suggested by the 1st garage and still has not started as is did before the temp sensor was put in as it used to always start and keep running on the 2nd try. I told them to put the old part back in, but was told they threw it away.

[reekor]

Okay lets go with that. With the engine cold what reading is the engine coolant temperature sensor giving you via scan tool? Did you try to clean the temperature sensor connector? Beware there are two, one for the ecm and one for the guage.

Originally Posted by Marquisman

Already tried that as it was suggested by the 1st garage and still has not started as is did before the temp sensor was put in as it used to always start and keep running on the 2nd try. I told them to put the old part back in, but was told they threw it away.

[Marquisman]

I asked the garage about it and they told me that they replaced both just to play it safe. I bought a fuel pump relay today and installed it for $11 and when I took out the old one it looked like 3 of the pins were a bit burned so maybe it will help. I will know in the morning.

[reekor]

The engine temperature gauge sensor wont cause any drivablity problems. But the engine temperature sensor for the ecm can cause starting problems. Just last fall I have replaced one on a sunbird that was reading normal running temperature with a cold engine, it made the engine hard to start with fuel flooding problems if the car sat over night in cool/cold weather.

Originally Posted by Marquisman

I asked the garage about it and they told me that they replaced both just to play it safe. I bought a fuel pump relay today and installed it for $11 and when I took out the old one it looked like 3 of the pins were a bit burned so maybe it will help. I will know in the morning.

[DDees]

Looks every thing was tried but the most likely problem which is the Idle Air Control Valve (motor). This problem gets worse during cold temperatures. The IAC valve tends to carbon up with time and is slow in operation due to small motor movement delayed by friction in move the valve. They can be cleaned with solvent and re-lubricate applied to the shaft but best option is to replace ~ $50-$75. The IAC is electric control for air around throttle plate for the large air duct into the top of the engine. There is 1 inch hose that splits off and goes to the top of the air plenum with an electrical connector for the motor that operates the valve. Remove the connect and 2 small bolts that hold it in place. This an easy fix for just about anyone for a common miss diagnosed problem.

[Patrick_Z1]

I bought a 96 Grand Marqis 120K at auction for $500 it had this same problem, I changed the fuel filter and that helped the cold starts then I cleaned the IAC valve as stated in this article and now it runs perfect and has tremendous power off the line, Thank you for the info.