alternator problems?

[evildragon]

I've been having an odd ongoing problem with my Caprice Classic LS (1994 model)... Here's a list of things that it has wrong:

1. Engine hesitates at low RPM's (like when trying to accelerate)
2. There's a very LOUD sound that's really indescribable, but sounds like air in a water hose, but it's not (it's a mechanical sound)
3. There is a very loud sqeaky sound (related to number 2?)

I'm more wondering if all three are related to each other... for number three, it seems that it's coming from the alternator.. i checked the alternator with the belt disconnected from it, and there's no play in it, but there is, what appears to be, metal shavings inside the wheel..

just this morning, i couldn't start the car.. i would try, but all i would hear is a click.. the volt meter on the dash showed that i had enough charge.. the radio came on (which has a 240watt amp attached), and worked perfectly.. i even turned that off, and no go, car wouldn't start.. litterally 20 tries later, and it started, without hesitation (as if it had more than enough power to start)...

however, i noticed when im at a red light, ready to take a left, everytime the left blinker blinks, the volt meter bounces a small bit (related to bad alternator?)..

i was given this car knowing it had problems, but i was kinda hoping i could fix it up.. im going to be taking some exams in school tomorrow morning, and i am hoping it starts (i have no other car)..

[Blue Bowtie]

Welcome Aboard!

Where, exactly, are you seeing metal shavings? Wheel? If you remove the belt and spin the alternator by hand, is there any unusual noise?

The problem with the no-start is possibly related to a connection or failing contacts in the starter solenoid. Obviously, the battery had adequate capacity to crank and run the engine, which would indicate that the alternator is at least charging. The voltmeter responding to the turn signal may also be related to a connection. You can monitor the meter while you add other loads, such as headlights and brake lights, or hazard flashers. If the voltmeter responds similarly and the change is less than 0.2V, it shouldn't be a problem. You may need to check this at the battery directly with a handheld voltmeter.

[evildragon]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

Welcome Aboard!

Where, exactly, are you seeing metal shavings? Wheel? If you remove the belt and spin the alternator by hand, is there any unusual noise?

The problem with the no-start is possibly related to a connection or failing contacts in the starter solenoid. Obviously, the battery had adequate capacity to crank and run the engine, which would indicate that the alternator is at least charging. The voltmeter responding to the turn signal may also be related to a connection. You can monitor the meter while you add other loads, such as headlights and brake lights, or hazard flashers. If the voltmeter responds similarly and the change is less than 0.2V, it shouldn't be a problem. You may need to check this at the battery directly with a handheld voltmeter.

thanks..

the metal shavings is inside the wheel (the thing on the alternator that the belt goes around), near the bolt...

i tried spinning the alternator by hand and heard no weird sounds, but it felt like it didn't spin to freely (is it supposed too?).

for the battery itself, here's the statistics (from my multimeter):
Car off: 12.6v
Car on: 13.4v

I noticed my car has a 105 amp alternator.. i feel this is quite low, considering my car has an audio amplifier in the trunk (and neon lights on the bottom of the car----that came with it when i bought it, lol)

also, my car does have the Check Engine light on (well, the symbol of an old engine), and i don't have a OBD reader (local shops charge an arm and a leg here because it's OBD I and not OBD II, and i don't have the money to afford it)

[Blue Bowtie]

Metal in the belt sheave is not necessarily a problem with the alternator itself. With the belt removed, there should be some light drag from the brushes and from the bearing seals, but it should spin easily by hand with almost no noise.

13.4 V is a little low while charging. Is that with the engine running and no accessories on (no lights, radio, heater, wipers, etc.)?

[evildragon]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

Metal in the belt sheave is not necessarily a problem with the alternator itself. With the belt removed, there should be some light drag from the brushes and from the bearing seals, but it should spin easily by hand with almost no noise.

13.4 V is a little low while charging. Is that with the engine running and no accessories on (no lights, radio, heater, wipers, etc.)?

yes, 13.4v is with nothing on...

[evildragon]

i wonder if this can be related somehow...

when my gas tank was half empty, the car ran beautiful, no hesitation at all (though it did have the screeching sound..)

then, when i filled up the gas (had a long trip), the car immediately starts hesitating...

hope this adds to a possibility on what the problem is..

[kahjdh]

Can't you jump a gm obd1 port with a paperclip?

[evildragon]

Originally Posted by kahjdh

Can't you jump a gm obd1 port with a paperclip?

why would i want to do that? (i don't know anything about the OBD ports)

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by evildragon

why would i want to do that? (i don't know anything about the OBD ports)

On the typical ALDL connector (that's shorthand for Assembly Line Diagnostic Link), jumping pins A and B, with the key on but the engine not started, will cause the check engine/service engine soon (malfunction indicator lamp or MIL) to flash in a series of flashes - for example, flash-pause-flash-flash reads as Code 12, flash-flash-flash-pause-flash-flash-flash-flash reads as 34 etc. Yours being a '94, it is conceivable that you have a 'hybrid' system, an OBD or OBD1 computer system but with an OBDII-style diagnostic port in place of the OBD ALDL - in which case I don't know if A and B are still the pins, the resident expert Blue Bowtie should chime in here soon, he should know. I do know that some GM cars received OBDII as early as 1994, if so it will say so on a sticker under the hood (the VECI or Vehicle Emission Control Information decal).

[silicon212]

Here's what you are looking at:

A) OBD-1 or ALDL connector:



B) OBD II connector:



C) VECI showing OBD II:



NOTE that if you have B instead of A, that doesn't necessarily mean you have OBD II! Only on a 1996 vehicle is this guaranteed OBD II, as by law all 1996 and newer vehicles sold in the US must have OBD II.

[evildragon]

i can't go out to the drive way right now (too late at night), but tomorrow i'll take a picture of the diagnostic port if that helps.. i know the engine in it is custom, cause it says "SS" on the top of it on a red plate, which would contradict the "LS" in my model...

[evildragon]

UPDATE: Here's a picture of the port.. The sticker under the hood didn't say if it was OBD II or not, and to be honest, it looks like OBD I or ALDL..

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/port.jpg

EDIT: I did the paperclip thing, and all that happened was the fan in the engine came on, and the "CHANGE OIL" light lit up.. But the check engine light did not flash, I waited there for it to flash, for a while...

[Blue Bowtie]

The '94 should have the 12-pin ALDL (mine does) with only four contacts (A, B, M, & H). However, because it is a hybrid (OBD 1½) system, while jumpering the 'A' and 'B' terminals of the ALDL will invoke Field Service Mode, it will not will not flash the "Check Engine" lamp to display error codes. You would need a scanner capable of reading the 8192b data stream to get the codes. That would be a GM Tech II, SnapOn MT2500, or MATCO Determinator.

[Blue Bowtie]

With this hybrid system, however, stored error codes can be erased if the ECM/PCM power is disconnected for a sufficient length of time to deplete power for the VRAM. Normally, that can be done by removing fuses, but since your electrical system is suspect, you probably should remove the negative battery cable, then the positive battery cable. Once the cables are removed, turn on the headlight switch (yes, I know they won't turn on, but the load will deplete power) and turn the ignition switch to the RUN position.

Once the cables are removed, inspect the terminals on the battery. Inspect the cable ends for damage or corrosion. You may have to unscrew the attachment bolts from the cable terminals, then slide the rubber insulating boots off the ends of the battery cable ring terminals to get a really good look. Clean up or repair any damage or corrosion.

Remember to turn off the ignition switch and headlight switch before reconnecting the battery cables.

[evildragon]

that itself shouldn't be the problem.. not to long ago, my battery died, and i had no battery in the car for a week.. so i would imagine all is erased..

but what im wondering, is, did an SS engine ever come standard in a Caprice Classic LS? I'm curious to know, if the PROM in the computer is incorrect for my engine, as I've been told my car has had the computer replaced multiple times, because they kept shorting out..