just give me the truth

[detonate69]

I don't want to start a flame war or anything but I am very curious. I see all these civics running around town with formula 1 size wings on the back. What does this do for your car? Is it just for looks or what? If your car is rear wheel drive I understand that at high speeds this will give you more downforce but on a front wheel drive civic what kind of benefits would it give you? Again I'm not trying to flame or anything just always wondered.

[kris]

I think you came to the wrong forums to ask that question. I have yet to see anyone on here that fits that description. So, maybe you should go to www.2k1civic.com and ask over there.

[Dezoris]

Ther are some wings designed to be adjustable to create downforce, most are just plain tacky and are for looks.

[Racing Rice]

You may want to get the last couple of Sport Compact Car magazines.. They are doing an article on downforce and Drag.. Its a very good article.. They may have the info on thier website also..

Most wings do indeed help with down force.. which is great because it helps keep the car firmly planted on the ground weather its a FWD or RWD..

My car has an adjustable DTM style wing, and a front chin spoiler on it..This helps keep air out from under the car at any kinda speeds..Air under the car can cause the car to feel like its floating a little, the faster you go the worse the floating becomes. I heard that you can being to tell a difference at about 45 mph..

Example:
There is this one road around where I live that has a quick dip to it.. If you hit it doing about 60+ in a stock car the car will come off the ground. I can hit it at 65 (Ive never tried any faster then that..) And my car stays planted on the ground.. So much that it like being on a rollercoaster and theres a fast drop that make it feel like you stomach shoots into your chest..

So to answer your question.. YES.. these wings do help (some more then others).

The down side to downforce is drag.. The more downforce you have the more drag you have.. The problem with drag is the faster you go the more power you need to gain speed.. The SCC article covers that subject really well..

I hope this helps.

[^YellowBandit^]

Well, alot of people put wings on their cars simply for looks (even if it does more harm than good). However, high-performance cars need wings that DO generate downforce, to keep them planted on the ground and prevent liftoff. (Recall the 3 Mercedes-Benz CLRs that took off in Le Mans? Lack of front-end downforce.) GT wings and other adjustable spoilers do provide downforce, but are not suitable for street Civics, because (no offense) Civics don't really go that fast, so they don't need any additional downforce. :grey: (sorry just had to test this icon, hehe)

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by ^YellowBandit^
GT wings and other adjustable spoilers do provide downforce, but are not suitable for street Civics, because (no offense) Civics don't really go that fast, so they don't need any additional downforce. :grey: (sorry just had to test this icon, hehe)

Thats a load of crap... You dont have to be doing 100+ mph to create downforce... You can benefit from it at highway speeds also, and just about every car will the highway speeds.. Granted its not as important to have them on a street driven car.. but to say its not suitable.. thats just plain BS... Downforce makes the car feel much more stable whether your at freeway speeds or doing 200 mph..

[twidge]

but if you have something like a FWD civic, you're taking weight off of the front wheels, which gives you more tire spin. a wing like this

on the 2000 mustang Cobra-R's is designed to produce downforce, and to keep weight on the rear wheels. That creates added traction beacuse it's RWD. So with a rear wing on a civic, if you can actually get to high enough speeds to use it (the cobra-r's effect isn't even noticeable till around 95 MPH) in a civic, it wouldn't be doing you any good at all. if it was AWD yes, but FWD no.

[Dezoris]

adding to what twidge said, wings are usually for looks, but, true aerodynamic pieces are all tuned together., and should be adjustable. These kits should include bumpers, wings, and lips. All of these are a part of the big picture, not just a wing.

[flylwsi]

ok...
there are other topics about this
if you have an fwd car that has a wing and you are adding downforce on the rear, you are not adding "weight" to the rear. you are pushing it down. this does not take weight off the front end of your car. all it is doing is preventing the back end from lifting.
also.
a wing does provide downforce at any speed. the effects are not as great at low speeds, but there is no way a wing "wont produce downforce". if you are sensitive to your cars handling, you will notice a difference at all speeds in the control of the car.
your rear end will stay planted a bit better in corners. wont twitch over bumps on the freeway.
but hey, most of the wings are better suited to a 747. a wing does not have to be huge to be effective. this is important. you do not needa massive wing to help in downforce. and yes, it is a help.
a note on the clkgtr at le mans...
the reason it flipped was not that it did not have enough downforce, but rather that at that spot on the track, with a slight rise and a bump, air is able to get under the front of the car. the cars are ungodly glued to the ground, as long as the airflow is managed properly. when a car like that gets too much air under it... flip. and those cars are pretty much flat on the bottom. and remember, two porsches did the same. this is more a cause of too much downforce, b/c the change was so violent, that the car did not have a chance to control itself. slightly lower downforce would have led to a car that would have controlled itself a bit easier over the bump(the suspension did not have time to react). what happened is that it went from extreme glued, to extreme force on the wrong side of the car. there is no really good way to describe it, other than watching it.

[flylwsi]

one more thing...
if i am wrong, please tell me about the clk gtr...
thanks

[Dezoris]

I agree with the notion that a wing will provide more stabilty to the rear end at high speeds. Actually I had a discussion at shitonhonda.com about the Supras spoiler, and how it provides its optimal downforce at 75Mph and was designed that way, many spoilers are not designed to proveide downforce, they rae simply designed to fit on the rear deck, not taking in consideration how air flows from the front of the car to the rear, and if anything all they do is cause drag, and not downforce.

You may be confusing the two? At low speeds downforce is unnoticable maybe 50MPH and up depending on the spoiler usually they are designed for 70 MPH and up, Audi TT, VW Beetle, Supra, Porsche Boxter S, 911 Turbo.

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by Dezoris
..about the Supras spoiler, and how it provides its optimal downforce at 75Mph and was designed that way, many spoilers are not designed to proveide downforce, they rae simply designed to fit on the rear deck, not taking in consideration how air flows from the front of the car to the rear, and if anything all they do is cause drag, and not downforce.

Exactly.. If you are wanting to get a wing that helps with aerodynamics pay very close attention to shapes and angles. You definately want something that will keep you on the ground..



Wings like this are very good about producing downforce because they are adjustable to get the most downforce with the least amount of drag.. This is very hard to do correctly without wind tunnels though..

And yes.. It is a good idea to put something on the front as well this too will keep air out from under the car like flylwsi said.

[flylwsi]

racing rice...
where in ohio are you at?

[dejoux]

Some wings are effective, alot are not...the way they work is the opposite of an aeroplane wing, they should be flat on top and curved underneath and as high as possibel without being above the roofline of the car...however on most ricer civics the are only for astetics.

Why do people think adding rear downforce to a car reduces front end traction, a car is not attached to the ground at one point somwhere in the middle that it balances on.

Mainly the only thing a big wing does is add more drag.

Same with most bumpers on the market, the agressive ones mostly push more air into and under the car, this is what your trying to avoid and therefore will be worse than a stock bumper

Obviously this only relates to road cars, particularly ricers, im not saying a big wing isnt necessary on a F1 Car

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by flylwsi
racing rice...
where in ohio are you at?

About 45 mins south of Dayton. Around Wilmington, Ohio.