'97 Venture, two garages-two very different diagnoses

[djuroganovic]

My '97 Venture was driving pretty good, never had any major problems, mileage was quite low for 9 year old vehicle (95,000). But last week it suddenly died. At first, engine suddenly shut off at 30MPh and battery light came on. I pulled on the side, crank the engine and it was running fine, no lights on dash, no strange noises, might be low on gas I thought to myself and I started driving to nearest gas station. 2 miles after it shut off again, just before gas station. Only this time battery and oil pressure lights came on. I added some fuel, tried to crank and it did but engine was jumping around on idle, battery and oil pressure lights were still on. I knew that oil pressure light (dummy light) is not good sign, so I wasn’t trying anything else but towed it to garage.
Guy at garage pulled oil pan, oil was good and it was changed couple of weeks before but he found some tiny pieces of metal and said it is “probably lower bearings”? And he said only reliable way to fix it is to put new engine in – anything else would be just wasting of money. It was $4000 estimate, so I decided not to repair it but to buy some descent used car.
Couple of days ago, my neighbor’s brother stopped by – he works for GM dealer garage. I told him my story and he says that it MUST have been some warning signs before engine died – like strange noises, overheating… but I didn’t have any of that.
So his conclusion was that it might be something much cheaper than “completely new engine” and that even if it is bearings, it is repairable, it might cost about $1500 - $2000.

Now, I already bought a new car, but I’m not sure should I even bother trying to repair Venture.
I’m quite dummy when it comes to engines and I believe that repairing the bearings might be just expensive patch that could break anytime but at the other side what if it’s not bearings?
Do any of you have similar experience? Is it possible for engine to just die like that – with no warning signs?

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by djuroganovic

My '97 Venture was driving pretty good, never had any major problems, mileage was quite low for 9 year old vehicle (95,000). But last week it suddenly died. At first, engine suddenly shut off at 30MPh and battery light came on. I pulled on the side, crank the engine and it was running fine, no lights on dash, no strange noises, might be low on gas I thought to myself and I started driving to nearest gas station. 2 miles after it shut off again, just before gas station. Only this time battery and oil pressure lights came on. I added some fuel, tried to crank and it did but engine was jumping around on idle, battery and oil pressure lights were still on. I knew that oil pressure light (dummy light) is not good sign, so I wasn’t trying anything else but towed it to garage.
Guy at garage pulled oil pan, oil was good and it was changed couple of weeks before but he found some tiny pieces of metal and said it is “probably lower bearings”? And he said only reliable way to fix it is to put new engine in – anything else would be just wasting of money. It was $4000 estimate, so I decided not to repair it but to buy some descent used car.
Couple of days ago, my neighbor’s brother stopped by – he works for GM dealer garage. I told him my story and he says that it MUST have been some warning signs before engine died – like strange noises, overheating… but I didn’t have any of that.
So his conclusion was that it might be something much cheaper than “completely new engine” and that even if it is bearings, it is repairable, it might cost about $1500 - $2000.

Now, I already bought a new car, but I’m not sure should I even bother trying to repair Venture.
I’m quite dummy when it comes to engines and I believe that repairing the bearings might be just expensive patch that could break anytime but at the other side what if it’s not bearings?
Do any of you have similar experience? Is it possible for engine to just die like that – with no warning signs?

Knowing what I know, I would guess that the camshaft is broken.
I would recommend that someone pull the front rocker cover off and spin the engine over. if # 6 rocker arms do not move, it's engine replacement time.
This is just a guess based on product knowledge and what you described..as always I recommend proper diagnosis be done to determine the root cause.
Don't forget the basics..air fuel spark and compression

[corning_d3]

You do realize the battery and oil pressure lights will come on AFTER the engine dies since it isn't charging and building oil pressure when it's not running.. If you didn't hear any horrible knocking noises before it died, I'd say start looking somewhere else for the real problem(fuel, maybe?).

EDIT: Was it using a lot of coolant?

[djuroganovic]

Originally Posted by corning_d3

You do realize the battery and oil pressure lights will come on AFTER the engine dies since it isn't charging and building oil pressure when it's not running.. If you didn't hear any horrible knocking noises before it died, I'd say start looking somewhere else for the real problem(fuel, maybe?).

EDIT: Was it using a lot of coolant?

Thanks for quick reply.
It was not using a coolant at all. I didn't really have any problems with engine except that it was burning some oil - less than 1 Liter in 2500 miles - I don't even know if that's a lot for 9yr old car.

Now, engine does crank, and it does (sort of) run for 10 - 15 seconds , jumps around just like if couple of spark plugs are bad and then shuts down. Low oil pressure and battery lamp are on while motor is running and stay lit after the engine dies.

Guys at garage did pull out spark plugs, measured compression, and their conclusion was bearings and or camshaft are gone. It just seems to me
unbeleiveable that engine would die like that - no warnings at all.
Maybe it wouldn't be bad idea to pay someone for second opinion, I was just thinking maybe someone can give me some useful information to help me decide what to do. Like my neighbour's brother explaind to me , engine diagnostic would cost at least $400-$500 because involves engine overhaul and disassembly.

[corning_d3]

What engine does it have in it?

EDIT: That's within normal range for the oil burning. What disturbes me is the mechanic stated "Bearings or Camshaft". A simple compression test is all one needs to decide if indeed the cam is broke, although a compression test WON'T tell you the condition of any bearings. I wouldn't jump in too deep just yet...Get a second (or third) opinion...I'm still skeptical on this guy's ways...

[scottnhalifax]

good chance it jumped a tooth onthe timming. or the knock sensor is turning the engine off because of a bad tensioner. i know it sound sliek the wrong stuff but in my shop i have ahad a few of these come and go
check out the basics first
scott

[cdru]

I would get a 2nd opinion. Even if the 2nd shop comes back saying the same thing, you are only out what it costs for the tow and diagnosis (probably less then $100). If it wasn't something that required a complete engine overhaul, you just saved yourself a chunk of change.

If the compression tests all came back fine or at least acceptable, you can rule out camshaft issues as there is only one camshaft. If oil pressure, any oil pressure, is present you can also rule out a broken cam shaft. A slipped gear on the timing chain is a possibility. Putting it on a computer probably would tell you that as the ignition would come at the wrong time. I'm not sure if you could even get it up to 15-20MPH if it was off one tooth.

I would also question electical issues. I know it sounds stupid, but have you checked battery connections, is the battery good, etc? What's the charging voltage? Do you have good spark in all cylinders, etc.

[Georgine97 venture]

Originally Posted by djuroganovic

My '97 Venture was driving pretty good, never had any major problems, mileage was quite low for 9 year old vehicle (95,000). But last week it suddenly died. At first, engine suddenly shut off at 30MPh and battery light came on. I pulled on the side, crank the engine and it was running fine, no lights on dash, no strange noises, might be low on gas I thought to myself and I started driving to nearest gas station. 2 miles after it shut off again, just before gas station. Only this time battery and oil pressure lights came on. I added some fuel, tried to crank and it did but engine was jumping around on idle, battery and oil pressure lights were still on. I knew that oil pressure light (dummy light) is not good sign, so I wasn’t trying anything else but towed it to garage.
Guy at garage pulled oil pan, oil was good and it was changed couple of weeks before but he found some tiny pieces of metal and said it is “probably lower bearings”? And he said only reliable way to fix it is to put new engine in – anything else would be just wasting of money. It was $4000 estimate, so I decided not to repair it but to buy some descent used car.
Couple of days ago, my neighbor’s brother stopped by – he works for GM dealer garage. I told him my story and he says that it MUST have been some warning signs before engine died – like strange noises, overheating… but I didn’t have any of that.
So his conclusion was that it might be something much cheaper than “completely new engine” and that even if it is bearings, it is repairable, it might cost about $1500 - $2000.

Now, I already bought a new car, but I’m not sure should I even bother trying to repair Venture.
I’m quite dummy when it comes to engines and I believe that repairing the bearings might be just expensive patch that could break anytime but at the other side what if it’s not bearings?
Do any of you have similar experience? Is it possible for engine to just die like that – with no warning signs?

Yes , the v6 (3.4 L) has a hallow camshaft and break in two pieces, the second haft is connected to the oil pump and does turn, it gives a false reading to the computer , at this point your engine is fried.

GM should recall (3.4) and replace the camshaft.

It happen to me