Talk to me about head/head gaskets on 97 GP 3800

[guitarfish]

Well I'm afraid it's come to this point. My son's 97 GT has been losing coolant for weeks. It began when his belt tensioner pulley broke, he drove the car home and allowed it to run hot. (He allowed the car to go in and out of red as he alternated between driving and coasting, for about 10-15min. It was 20 degrees out).

After replacing the water pump and heater bypass tube, which were leaking, the car was still losing coolant. Last weekend we replaced the lower intake manifold gasket, and installed a new upper gasket along with a Dorman plenum. There are no visible signs of leakage anywhere on the outside of the engine, yet it continues to use coolant.

Tonight I pulled off the oil filler cap, which I cleaned 3 days ago, and there were several drops of water on the inside of it, along with a small amount of what I've come to learn is called "milkskake". Not alot, but enough for it to be obvious - coolant is getting into the oil. (When I pull the oil dipstick, I see no evidence of water there, incidentally).

Based on all I've read here, I'm guessing either the heads got warped, or the head gaskets are leaking.

1. What do you think?
2. Does anyone have a link to a guide on pulling the heads? Is this DIY?
3. Assuming I got the heads off, I have a local shop that could check them. If they're warped, can they straighten them?

Any other tips/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm very bummed about this.

[richtazz]

Regretfully, I agree that you have a head gasket issue. It sounds as though he overheated it to the point of head gasket failure. I know many people that are capable of doing a head gasket job, so it's not out of the realm of the DIY. The proceedure is a long one, too large to post here, so I'd advise you to get a good repair manual to help you with this proceedure. It will have all the torque values you'll need. The 3800 uses two different head gaskets (one for the rear bank and one for the front bank), so don't let a parts monkey sell you the wrong parts. When you get it torn down, take the heads to a reputable machine shop and have them pressure tested and checked for warpage before reassembly.

[guitarfish]

That's what I was afraid of Rich, but I do appreciate the input. I will probably end up trading in the car, but if I could ask a couple additional questions:

1) On the 3800 in the GT, once the intake manifold is off, are you able to remove the valve covers, exhaust manifold, and then the heads without having to move the engine?

2) Not counting taking the heads to a shop, how many additional hours would you say this job is compared to a UIM/LIM job?

Just trying to get an idea what I'd be getting into.

Thanks.

[Scrapper]

first time i heard a head gasket leaking on a 3800 because they put them in alot of cars..i'm not saying it cant happen but sounds like head is warped..good luck to ya..

[richtazz]

Yes, you can remove the heads without disturbing the engine. To verify coolant loss in the cylinders, you can do a compression test and/or inspect the spark plugs for coolant (they'll have an orangish tint or a faint maple syrup like smell to them). Pressurizing the cooling system may locate the leak as well. If you use a radiator pressure tester (available in A-Z's free tool loan program) and pressurize the system with the spark plugs out, you may be able to hear whicjh cylinder is leaking through the plug hole.
Time wise, the job is about 3-4 more hours past the intake job, depending on how rusted the bolts are and if it fights you.

[wlkjr]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Yes, you can remove the heads without disturbing the engine. To verify coolant loss in the cylinders, you can do a compression test and/or inspect the spark plugs for coolant (they'll have an orangish tint or a faint maple syrup like smell to them). Pressurizing the cooling system may locate the leak as well. If you use a radiator pressure tester (available in A-Z's free tool loan program) and pressurize the system with the spark plugs out, you may be able to hear whicjh cylinder is leaking through the plug hole.
Time wise, the job is about 3-4 more hours past the intake job, depending on how rusted the bolts are and if it fights you.

I wonder if there's any chance that just the lower intake needs machining? Might should have had that checked while off. As I recall, one poster said he had to have his lower intake machined as it was slightly warped.

[guitarfish]

I suppose that's a possibility too. This is one of the challenges with an issue like this - there's so many things it could be, and none of them are easy.

[wlkjr]

Save the '97 for spare parts for your '98.

[guitarfish]

Well guys, my son and I discussed our options. At this moment, my local Pontiac dealer is holding a 2004 GT for us. I've only seen pictures so far, but it looks really nice, it has 73,000 miles. We're going to look at it on Monday.

We've decided to cut our losses on the 97, the amount of work and aggravation to find and fix its problems are just too much.

Thanks everyone for your help - I'll post pics of the new ride when we get it.

[guitarfish]

Here she is !!! Just picked up today. My son's new 2004 GT.

[VR43000GT]

Nice car

[Bassasasin]

Not to discourage you from a new car but after fixing a leak problem its not unusual to see a bit more coolant finding its way to the radiator cap..
Just soz readers know it.

Bass

[eippermx]

Clean looking ride, G-Fish.

__________________
mark

Black 2dr '98 GTP project
Red 2dr '99 GP GT
White 4 dr '04 GP GT1

[guitarfish]

Thanks guys! It's as clean as a whistle. My son is in lahh-lahh land. I have another year to go before I'm ready for my next one, and he's got my juices flowing now.