evo 3 16g turbo on stock injectors?

[TeamRedLine23]

I was talking to a local performance shop (Drift tech) here in vista,CA about getting a evo 3 turbo for me...I asked him about i also wanted 550cc injectors to go with the 16g turbo...he said that the stock fuel system should fine for 12-15psi of boost...I know I should get bigger injectors for the evo3 turbo...but after I get the turbo I wont have enough money for injectors for a while...so, will the stock injectors be fine at stock boost or what ever the actutor is set at on the 16g turbo?

[crunchymilk55]

leave the car at stock boost until you get fuel. The car won't feel much faster, but it won't give up past 5,000rpm. Only problem is you will most likely boost creep (some go all the way to 20psi) so unless you plan on porting the shit out of the turbo, I would just buy the turbo (extremepsi) and then wait until you have the fuel. No use in risking leaning out the motor because of boost creep when the power gains aren't that significant at stock boost levels.

[TeamRedLine23]

that is what I was worried about, not enough fuel...I am only thinknig of doing this is because my 14b turbo is blown to hell and my eclipse is my only car...and its really hard to get to work and back...I have been carless for about 2 1/2 weeks...also, what size injectors should i get if I wanted to run about 18-20 psi...680cc? IIRC, i cant to any bigger than that because I only have a s-afc...

[crunchymilk55]

Originally Posted by TeamRedLine23

that is what I was worried about, not enough fuel...I am only thinknig of doing this is because my 14b turbo is blown to hell and my eclipse is my only car...and its really hard to get to work and back...I have been carless for about 2 1/2 weeks...also, what size injectors should i get if I wanted to run about 18-20 psi...680cc? IIRC, i cant to any bigger than that because I only have a s-afc...

you should only go to 550cc with an safc2. Yes, above that cc, the safc-2 can compensate enough fuel, that's not the problem. The problem is it can only "lie" to the ecu so much, it thinks it's getting less air than it really is, and so the ecu gives the car more timing to make up for it, this leads to knock and losing all timing together. Trust me on this, I am 100% positive. Some will say you can go to 660 or 680 with the safc-2, but it won't work properly and you will just have a big headache. If I were in your situation, I would buy a used 14b for less than 100 bucks, then wait until you have enough money for turbo, fuel, and dsmlink. It's not the cheapest route, but it's the smartest. Mod once, mod right.

[crunchymilk55]

Also, I would advise against the evo3 16g. On a FWD, it's to "instant on" power. As to how much fuel you will need for 18-20psi, that depends on the turbo. 550s may be enough, but that depends on how much air you flow.

[TeamRedLine23]

if I get tight with my money I can get the turbo and the injectors but the DSMlink will have to be on hold for a few months...

[Thor06]

Get link before the injectors or turbo. You cant run injectors without fuel compensation anyway, and I wouldnt put a bigger turbo on unless you needed to. I think you would be suprised how much more power you would get with a decent tune.

[steviek]

550's make 20 psi no problem
i can crank up around 25 on them before a/f starts getting out of whack

[crunchymilk55]

Most people don't understand that to use a performance part, you usually need a few others. You can't use a new turbo without fuel, management, boost controller etc. You can't use injectors without a turbo that needs it and a way to manage them.

I bought everything for my car piece by piece, and put it all together in 1 day. I wouldn't recommend this, because I had about 10 kinks I had to figure out, but I would recommend buying everything, then putting on each part 1 by 1 and test driving, fixing anything, etc. It's a pain in the ass trying to find out what's wrong when you just changed 20 things, heh.

[crunchymilk55]

Originally Posted by steviek

550's make 20 psi no problem
i can crank up around 25 on them before a/f starts getting out of whack

you aren't flowing very much air then. Do you know the lbs/minute? Boost isn't a determining factor, airflow is.

[steviek]

nah I don't know

[scottsee]

I tested the evo316g aginst 450cc's last summer. There is no way you can use them unless you are injecting methanol.

2rd gear pull:

the 450's hit 100%IDC at 19psi, 10.5:1AFR, 5000rpm.. More importantly 2.55g/rev (fuel cut) occured at 4850 @ 27.1lb/min. Before you worry about overflowing your stock fuel system you'll be running into the ECU airflow limitations. Get DSMlink first

DSMlink log found here

[crunchymilk55]

lol it took some balls to do that..

[scottsee]

It was more I didn't have my 550's yet and needed to see where I could safely turn the boost down to. ended up being 20psi with my 600cc methanol nozle and 17psi without. Thats on pump gas of course. If my car would ever let me lean out further then 10.5:1 without meth I would probably kept it around 18.5.

The diffrence between the 14b and evo3 is substantual. You'll love it.

[spyderturbo007]

You have to look at flow, not boost pressure, to determine the proper injectors and FP you need to run. I wrote this a couple of months ago over at tuners and thought I would copy it over here. Everything you didn't want to know about injectors and FP's







Alright, I've decided to spend some time at work and crunch some numbers on the most commonly used injector and fuel pump sizes. The list below will provide you with the maximum amount of air that a give fuel system component can handle. There are some assumptions that I had to make for the calculation to function. Such as:

1) Everyone is running 93 octane fuel @ a base pressure of 43psi.
2) The Denso stock replacement fuel pump supplys the same flow, at a give pressure, as the stock Mitsubishi pump.
3) Everyone's fuel pump and injectors are working at peak performance.
4) Target AFR is 11:1
5) I can't have everyone's injectors flow tested, so we have to assume that if you bought 550cc injectors, that they flow 550cc/min.

On to the numbers

Injectors

390cc @ 100% IDC will support 27.99lbs/min
390cc @ 80% IDC will support 22.39lbs/min

450cc @ 100% IDC will support 32.30lbs/min
450cc @ 80% IDC will support 25.84lbs/min

550cc @ 100% IDC will support 39.48lbs/min
550cc @ 80% IDC will support 31.58lbs/min

580cc @ 100% IDC will support 41.63lbs/min
580cc @ 80% IDC will support 33.31lbs/min

650cc @ 100% IDC will support 46.66lbs/min
650cc @ 80% IDC will support 37.32lbs/min

660cc @ 100% IDC will support 47.37lbs/min
660cc @ 80% IDC will support 37.90lbs/min

720cc @ 100% IDC will support 51.68lbs/min
720cc @ 80% IDC will support 41.34lbs/min

750cc @ 100% IDC will support 53.83lbs/min
750cc @ 80% IDC will support 43.07lbs/min

780cc @ 100% IDC will support 55.99lbs/min
780cc @ 80% IDC will support 44.79lbs/min

850cc @ 100% IDC will support 61.01lbs/min
850cc @ 80% IDC will support 48.80lbs/min

880cc @ 100% IDC will support 63.17lbs/min
880cc @ 80% IDC will support 50.53lbs/min

950cc @ 100% IDC will support 68.19lbs/min
950cc @ 80% IDC will support 54.55lbs/min

1000cc @ 100% IDC will support 71.78lbs/min
1000cc @ 80% IDC will support 57.42lbs/min

1150cc @ 100% IDC will support 82.54lbs/min
1150cc @ 80% IDC will support 66.04lbs/min

1600cc @ 100% IDC will support 114.85lbs/min
1600cc @ 80% IDC will support 91.88lbs/min

Fuel pumps

Numbers will be arranged in the following format:

"X psi = Y lbs/min"

where X = Boost and Y = Max airflow supported by pump

Stock 2g pump

10psi = 33.29lbs/min
11psi = 32.61lbs/min
12psi = 31.90lbs/min
13psi = 31.17lbs/min
14psi = 30.41lbs/min
15psi = 29.63lbs/min
16psi = 28.84lbs/min
17psi = 28.01lbs/min
18psi = 27.16lbs/min
19psi = 26.28lbs/min
20psi = 25.38lbs/min
21psi = 24.46lbs/min
22psi = 23.51lbs/min
23psi = 22.54lbs/min
24psi = 21.54lbs/min
25psi = 20.52lbs/min

Stock 2g pump (Rewired)

10psi = 42.08lbs/min
11psi = 41.51lbs/min
12psi = 40.92lbs/min
13psi = 40.30lbs/min
14psi = 39.67lbs/min
15psi = 39.00lbs/min
16psi = 38.32lbs/min
17psi = 37.61lbs/min
18psi = 36.88lbs/min
19psi = 36.13lbs/min
20psi = 35.35lbs/min
21psi = 34.55lbs/min
22psi = 33.72lbs/min
23psi = 32.88lbs/min
24psi = 32.01lbs/min
25psi = 31.11lbs/min

Walboro 190lph

10psi = 46.48lbs/min
11psi = 45.89lbs/min
12psi = 45.26lbs/min
13psi = 44.58lbs/min
14psi = 43.86lbs/min
15psi = 43.09lbs/min
16psi = 42.28lbs/min
17psi = 41.43lbs/min
18psi = 40.54lbs/min
19psi = 39.60lbs/min
20psi = 38.62lbs/min
21psi = 37.60lbs/min
22psi = 36.53lbs/min
23psi = 35.42lbs/min
24psi = 34.26lbs/min
25psi = 33.06lbs/min

Walboro 190lph (Rewired)

10psi = 60.68lbs/min
11psi = 59.85lbs/min
12psi = 59.01lbs/min
13psi = 58.16lbs/min
14psi = 57.29lbs/min
15psi = 56.40lbs/min
16psi = 55.49lbs/min
17psi = 54.57lbs/min
18psi = 53.63lbs/min
19psi = 52.67lbs/min
20psi = 51.70lbs/min
21psi = 50.71lbs/min
22psi = 49.71lbs/min
23psi = 48.68lbs/min
24psi = 47.64lbs/min
25psi = 46.58lbs/min

Walboro 255lph

10psi = 63.53lbs/min
11psi = 62.88lbs/min
12psi = 62.20lbs/min
13psi = 61.48lbs/min
14psi = 60.72lbs/min
15psi = 59.93lbs/min
16psi = 59.10lbs/min
17psi = 58.23lbs/min
18psi = 57.33lbs/min
19psi = 56.39lbs/min
20psi = 55.41lbs/min
21psi = 54.39lbs/min
22psi = 53.34lbs/min
23psi = 52.26lbs/min
24psi = 51.13lbs/min
25psi = 49.97lbs/min

Walboro 255lph (Rewired)

10psi = 72.15lbs/min
11psi = 71.47lbs/min
12psi = 70.77lbs/min
13psi = 70.04lbs/min
14psi = 69.29lbs/min
15psi = 68.52lbs/min
16psi = 67.73lbs/min
17psi = 66.92lbs/min
18psi = 66.08lbs/min
19psi = 65.22lbs/min
20psi = 64.34lbs/min
21psi = 63.43lbs/min
22psi = 62.50lbs/min
23psi = 61.55lbs/min
24psi = 60.58lbs/min
25psi = 59.58lbs/min

Walboro 255lph HP

10psi = 64.64lbs/min
11psi = 64.19lbs/min
12psi = 63.74lbs/min
13psi = 63.30lbs/min
14psi = 62.86lbs/min
15psi = 62.42lbs/min
16psi = 61.99lbs/min
17psi = 61.56lbs/min
18psi = 61.13lbs/min
19psi = 60.71lbs/min
20psi = 60.29lbs/min
21psi = 59.87lbs/min
22psi = 59.46lbs/min
23psi = 59.05lbs/min
24psi = 58.64lbs/min
25psi = 58.24lbs/min

Walboro 255lph HP (Rewired)

10psi = 74.29lbs/min
11psi = 73.86lbs/min
12psi = 73.43lbs/min
13psi = 73.01lbs/min
14psi = 72.58lbs/min
15psi = 72.15lbs/min
16psi = 71.72lbs/min
17psi = 71.28lbs/min
18psi = 70.85lbs/min
19psi = 70.42lbs/min
20psi = 69.99lbs/min
21psi = 69.55lbs/min
22psi = 69.12lbs/min
23psi = 68.68lbs/min
24psi = 68.24lbs/min
25psi = 67.80lbs/min

Denso US EVO 8 Stock Pump

10psi = 39.96lbs/min
11psi = 39.10lbs/min
12psi = 38.12lbs/min
13psi = 37.31lbs/min
14psi = 36.39lbs/min
15psi = 35.45lbs/min
16psi = 34.48lbs/min
17psi = 33.49lbs/min
18psi = 32.49lbs/min
19psi = 31.47lbs/min
20psi = 31.47lbs/min
21psi = 29.35lbs/min
22psi = 28.26lbs/min
23psi = 27.15lbs/min
24psi = 26.02lbs/min
25psi = 24.87lbs/min

Denso EVO 8 Stock Pump (Rewired)

10psi = 51.23lbs/min
11psi = 50.36lbs/min
12psi = 49.48lbs/min
13psi = 48.60lbs/min
14psi = 47.72lbs/min
15psi = 46.85lbs/min
16psi = 45.97lbs/min
17psi = 45.09lbs/min
18psi = 44.20lbs/min
19psi = 43.32lbs/min
20psi = 43.32lbs/min
21psi = 41.55lbs/min
22psi = 40.67lbs/min
23psi = 39.78lbs/min
24psi = 38.90lbs/min
25psi = 38.01lbs/min

Denso Supra 260

10psi = 70.70lbs/min
11psi = 70.06lbs/min
12psi = 69.42lbs/min
13psi = 68.77lbs/min
14psi = 68.12lbs/min
15psi = 67.45lbs/min
16psi = 66.78lbs/min
17psi = 66.10lbs/min
18psi = 65.42lbs/min
19psi = 64.73lbs/min
20psi = 64.03lbs/min
21psi = 63.32lbs/min
22psi = 62.60lbs/min
23psi = 61.88lbs/min
24psi = 61.15lbs/min
25psi = 60.41lbs/min

Denso Supra 260 (Rewired)

10psi = 82.91lbs/min
11psi = 82.38lbs/min
12psi = 81.83lbs/min
13psi = 81.28lbs/min
14psi = 80.73lbs/min
15psi = 80.17lbs/min
16psi = 79.60lbs/min
17psi = 79.03lbs/min
18psi = 78.46lbs/min
19psi = 77.88lbs/min
20psi = 77.08lbs/min
21psi = 76.71lbs/min
22psi = 76.11lbs/min
23psi = 75.51lbs/min
24psi = 74.91lbs/min
25psi = 74.30lbs/min

Although these are the maximum values that the fuel system components can support, I do not advocate running the fuel pumps at their maximum flow. I also don't recommend running your injectors above 80% IDC. Why, you might ask.....

Lets say you are running on the 190lph Walboro @ 20psi and are flowing about 37lbs/min of air. At that point you are within the tolerance of a perfectly functioning pump. For some reason your voltage drops because of a bad alternator, or the boost starts to creep for some reason. Now you are pushing more air than the pump can support and the car starts running lean. At that point there is a chance of melting something, which we would all like to avoid.

Anyway, I just thought I would crunch some numbers so that everyone has a reference.

Also, if anyone sees any errors, let me know and I will make the appropriate corrections. There was a lot of numbers to crunch and transpose, so it is possible that I made a mistake.

EDIT -> Added additional data for injectors (750cc, 850cc, 950cc and 1000cc). Also, please note that these flow rates are calculated at the fuel pump outlet and not after traveling through the system. Just another reason not to try and approach the maximum limits listed above.

I just added the US EVO 8 stock pump and the Denso Supra 260 as requested.

I also adjusted the injector calculation because I screwed up the mass of 1 gallon of water in my calculation, which led to the incorrect mass of 1 gallon of fuel being used.