Another blown head gasket and some engine removal questions

[BlueCaprice]

Hello everyone

First I'd like to say what a great forum this is. I've been saved quite a few times just from reading the posts. I just acquired a 96 windstar with a blown head gasket and I have a few questions before I commit to repairing this vehicle. I am going to attempt to change the gaskets myself but I am trying to prepare for the worst case scenario, as I know the owner drove it around for a while like this and now the oil looks like chocolate milk shake. My first and biggest concern is if this later on turns out to need new bearings, I would like to try to pull this engine out from the top with a hoist. I know the manual says it must be removed from the bottom of the vehicle but I would have easier access to an engine hoist than a vehicle hoist. I read somewhere else on this forum of someone pulling the motor from a 95 this way and I wonder if it would be the same in a 96. Also, would I unbolt the tranny first or would I try to pull it all in one piece. Now if I am able to pull this motor from the top, would a short block from a 4.2l f150 bolt right in, or would there be modifications involved.

Thanks everyone for reading.

[KimMG]

Since you are going to need one, get a repair manual. Look at the motor and how it mounts while reading through the procedure.

[12Ounce]

It will probably come out of the top OK. I don't have access to a hoist ... and I've overhauled two (4 bangers) just last year.

I like to remove all the accessories, the manifolds, heads, pistons and rods, even crank, etc ... get down to the block ... all "in car". The block isn't so menacing once its bare. And not so heavy either. A couple of chains, ... a length of 2x8 ... all you need for two guys to lift a block out of a car.

My '99 has 220k miles on it and running well. But by 300k miles it'll probably be showing its age. I plan to pull engine and tranny at that point for a general overhaul. I may drop it, rather than lift it ... haven't thought it thru yet.

[wiswind]

I would not expect a short block from a F150 to work as you are taking a rear wheel drive style block and trying to put it into a front wheel drive vehicle.
Even the 3.8L front and rear wheel drive versions are different.

FORD TSB # 02-1-4
specifies that the head gaskets are to be DRY fitted.
This means that NO sealant aids are to be used, and they want ALL oil removed from the mating surfaces.

FORD TSB #2-11-4
FORD also states that NO metal is to be used to clean the mating surfaces.....they even go so far as to say NOT to use razer blades.
Wooden, or nylon tools with solvent are to be used to remove all gasket materials from the head gasket mating surfaces.

The reason that they give is that any nicks, however small will lead to wicking of coolant and / or oil and gasket sealing failure.
The same statement is made about any oil or sealant materials that get onto the mating surfaces.....that they will prevent correct bonding of the gasket to the metal surface.

Replacement of the head gaskets requires removal of the lower intake manifold.....and that requires replacement of the lower intake manifold gaskets.
Get the replacement gaskets from FORD.
The lower intake manifold gaskets are FAR more common failure than the head gaskets.....and coolant leaking into the intake manifold through these gaskets will be drawn into the cylinder(s), and can be mis-diagnosed as a head gasket failure.
Point being, follow good troublshooting practices to determine that the head gaskets are truely defective.

I am not experienced with the head gasket job, or the troubleshooting practices, but a few members here have been through it.
I did do the lower intake manifold gaskets, and broke a bolt......and, yes, 1 broken bolt required the job to be done again.....so be very careful....I think a "beam type" of torque wrench would be better at these lower torque levels (for the lower intake manifold) than the "clicker type" that I used.
Was a learning experience.

[BlueCaprice]

Thanks so much everyone for the quick and detailed replies. For some reason I never thought about the LIM gasket. I guess I just assumed the worst. Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong but wouldn't the symptoms be the same for both? How would I be able to tell whether it was the head gasket or the manifold gasket?

[12Ounce]

If caught early, the intake manifold gasket can be an much easier repair. I've done it also ... and agree with finding a beam type torque wrench. I have three ... a 1/4", a 3/8" and a 1/2". If you use a 3/8" with care, it will do the low ranges needed for the Winnie intake bolts.

But if you have "chocolate" in the crankcase ... I would recommend a total overhaul ... or, at least, an inspection of the crank bearings.

BTW, I like to use wood spacers (think paint stirrers) when installing heads. Place two stacks of wood spacers on top of the new gasket ... carefully lower the refurbished head in place atop the wood spacers... loosely install all head bolts ... lift up on head while assistant removes the wood stacks. Guaranteed to prevent head surface damage!

[road_rascal]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

BTW, I like to use wood spacers (think paint stirrers) when installing heads. Place two stacks of wood spacers on top of the new gasket ... carefully lower the refurbished head in place ... loosely install all head bolts ... lift up on head while assistant removes the wood stacks. Guaranteed to prevent head surface damage!

Ohhh- great tip! I never even thought of that one!

[rodeo02]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

..My '99 has 220k miles on it and running well. But by 300k miles it'll probably be showing its age.

Good Lord 12oz! Does that van ever cool off? Congrats on that mileage. I'd love to be able to get that out of my 2001, but I'm affraid the rest of it will fall apart first. She looks like a salt block out there in the 0degF driveway right now.

Joel

[12Ounce]

Rodeo, the secret to running up a lot of miles on a minivan .... is have six grown kids ... who all think Dad's minivan is great for: vacation trips, carrying folks out for the evening, hauling (with trailer), etc, etc.

But I overestimated the mileage. It's only near 210k miles. (The reason I know is my daughter brought the Winnie by today ..... so I could change the oil.)