The Lucerne is no Buick

[polarzak]

Have recently bought a Lucerne CXL, and so far am really regretting my decision. The thing rides like a tank on the highway, shakes like crazy, constantly pulls to the right, and the gas mileage is nearly 1 1/2 times my 2000 LeSabre which I still have to make to comparison. The 7 year old LeSabre rides like a dream, whereas the Lucerne is rough, and requires constant steering correction at highway speeds. It is back to the dealer AGAIN!!!!

If anyone is considering purchasing a Lucerne, PLEASE take it out on the highway before you sign on the line.

[Paul Gavaza]

I bought the wife a loaded 06 CXL with 2300 miles on it in Dec and haven't had a rattle or shake. The temps here have been hovering around low teens and the roads are pretty &%$#(@! hard too.

It now has 4000 on it and if there is an embarrassing flaw, it's the 4 speed when the rest of the world is using 6 and even 8. When GM finally bites the dust, it will have nothing to do with benefits. They just refuse to compete.

Other than some engine noise, it was completely silent inside when I first got it and I now notice only slightly more outside noise, but that may be the sub teen temps.

28 MPG on the highway. 17" Continentals. The middle suspension( forget what they call it) It doesn't drift anymore than a bunch of Avalons I tested.

It is no Lexus, but it isn't horrible.

I just hope it doesn't turn out to be as much of a piece of crap as my Silverado.


Paul G

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by Paul Gavaza

When GM finally bites the dust, it will have nothing to do with benefits. They just refuse to compete.

Paul G

I agree totally. My brother has a Lexus and is happier than a pig in s**t. It has never been back to the dealer except for oil changes. MY Lucerne has been back for a timing cover leak, loose seat, and a new electric truck opener, all under warranty, but a pain. Meanwhile, my recent trip to the dealer has turned up an out of round rim. On a NEW CAR????? ($1200 dollar option) Apparently the rim has caused on of the Continentals' belt to shift. Guess what, no Continentals in stock, and "we can't just order one, we have to bulk order" so I am stuck for a few more weeks with an expensive car that rides like crap. This is my LAST GM, perhaps last North American vehicle.

[GringoPete]

Originally Posted by polarzak

I agree totally. My brother has a Lexus and is happier than a pig in s**t. It has never been back to the dealer except for oil changes. MY Lucerne has been back for a timing cover leak, loose seat, and a new electric truck opener, all under warranty, but a pain. Meanwhile, my recent trip to the dealer has turned up an out of round rim. On a NEW CAR????? ($1200 dollar option) Apparently the rim has caused on of the Continentals' belt to shift. Guess what, no Continentals in stock, and "we can't just order one, we have to bulk order" so I am stuck for a few more weeks with an expensive car that rides like crap. This is my LAST GM, perhaps last North American vehicle.

Thats just the thing, arent the newer Buicks being made in Mexico?

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by GringoPete

Thats just the thing, arent the newer Buicks being made in Mexico?

Don't think so, even Mexico would make a better car than this is. My Lucerne, now with $800 Michelin MXV4 Plus tires, still shakes as bad as ever. Time to trade the crap in for a real car.

[69-87-95-buicks]

As a long time Buick owner I am sorry to hear this bad news about the only car Buick is producing now. I don't consider "that other car" that looks like a rebadged Ford Taurus to be a Buick. I don't believe Buick should be rebadging all the trucks and SUV's that corporate GM forces on them these days. Hopefully next time I'm looking for a used Buick I can find another late model Riviera or Park Avenue / Lesabre.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Buicks in my stable:
69 Skylark
87 Regal Turbo T
95 Riviera

[bmwgolfguy]

Originally Posted by 69-87-95-buicks

As a long time Buick owner I am sorry to hear this bad news about the only car Buick is producing now. I don't consider "that other car" that looks like a rebadged Ford Taurus to be a Buick. I don't believe Buick should be rebadging all the trucks and SUV's that corporate GM forces on them these days. Hopefully next time I'm looking for a used Buick I can find another late model Riviera or Park Avenue / Lesabre.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Buicks in my stable:
69 Skylark
87 Regal Turbo T
95 Riviera

I have owned an 89 Park Avenue, 92 Park, 95 Riv supercharged, 97 Riv SC, and presently have a 96 Lesabre Custom and a 01 and 02 as well.

I have to say the nicest ride I ever had (and I've owned 3 bimmers) was the 89 PA. I wish I could find another. The Dyna-Ride was great.

I also recently had a chance to buy a loaded 97 SC Riv with only 60,000 miles on it for $6,500. I could kick myself for not buying it.

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by bmwgolfguy

I have owned an 89 Park Avenue, 92 Park, 95 Riv supercharged, 97 Riv SC, and presently have a 96 Lesabre Custom and a 01 and 02 as well.

I have to say the nicest ride I ever had (and I've owned 3 bimmers) was the 89 PA. I wish I could find another. The Dyna-Ride was great.

I also recently had a chance to buy a loaded 97 SC Riv with only 60,000 miles on it for $6,500. I could kick myself for not buying it.

I had a 95 Regal with Dyna-Ride. It rode better than the Lucerne.

[bigsky]

Originally Posted by polarzak

Don't think so, even Mexico would make a better car than this is. My Lucerne, now with $800 Michelin MXV4 Plus tires, still shakes as bad as ever. Time to trade the crap in for a real car.

Just checking...Have you had a chance to put some miles on the Michelin's? I recently put some Goodyear TripleTreads on a 99 Park and it took 1k miles for the tires to settle in and for various vibrations to settle down. I hope they will continue to get even better. The mechanic I talked to said he has never seen vibrations caused by suspension or alignment problems, but in his experience they are almost always caused by wheels/tires.

The Buick Park's too had various vibration problems, and Michelin's helped with some. Another popular recommendation was to get the tires "road force balanced" with a Hunter machine (by someone experienced with the procedure).

However, you describe a "shake" versus "vibrations" which may point to a deeper problem. It seems this could be diagnosed and fixed. Even still, the frustration of it all...

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by bigsky

Just checking...Have you had a chance to put some miles on the Michelin's?
However, you describe a "shake" versus "vibrations" which may point to a deeper problem. It seems this could be diagnosed and fixed. Even still, the frustration of it all...

Thanks for asking.
I have put about 8k on the Michelins and, yes, the ride seems better after I had them road forced balanced. That may be only that I have gotten used to it. I am still not really happy with the Lucerne for that and other reasons, and it certainly is no Buick when compared to my (wife's) LeSabre, but it sure does get loads of compliments for it's looks. It is a good looking car in Black.

[Blue Bowtie]

It's unfortunate you got a poorly assembled Lucerne. The loose seat is obviously not a design problem, but an assembly problem.

The bent wheel (supplied by Reynolds or MMC in Japan - Look at the back flange if you don't believe me) is obviously not a design problem.

IIRC, Continental is a child of Yokohama Tire. That means that two of your four problems are only due to Japanese quality, and therefore can just as easily occur on a Lexus. Of course, you might be able to blame the UAW and/or Teamsters for mishandling the wheels in production or shipping and bending them.

The oil leak is likely even an assembly problem, and not a design problem. Don't blame GM for the UAW's shortcomings, and don't reward either for poor performance. If GM goes under, both will go down. Too bad that half of them don't realize that.

As for the idea of using a 5 or 6-speed automatic, and GM being "behind" the rest of the world, you may want to refresh your information. GM had 6-speed automatics in service by 1974. It took the rest of the world 30+ years to catch up. Then it took someone to build passenger cars that actually needed a 6-speed - To have such inadequate torque for their weight that they can’t get moving with less than a 5:1 ratio, and to still enable the underpowered cars to get fuel mileage to compete. GM has been getting it done with higher stall torque converters for years, and accomplishing the same sort of thing.

More isn't necessarily better. OTR trucks have had 18-speed transmissions for decades. They also lack adequate power and have engine without a sufficiently broad torque band to enable them to use fewer ranges. When you underpower a car to a similar power/weight ratio, the same thing happens. When you have four lower gears to get the slug moving, and three upper gears to keep it moving at highway speeds, and an "ultra-smooth" 1.8 liter, sixty valve V12, you need a nine speed transmission to cover all the bases. My '96 Impala gets 27 highway, and I can put a Lexus in the trunk as a spare. It has four speeds, and only makes it to 122 MPH in 1320' as a result. I guess I need more gears.

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

It's unfortunate you got a poorly assembled Lucerne. Don't blame GM for the UAW's shortcomings, and don't reward either for poor performance.

Thanks for your input. I did not complain about the transmission so I have left that out of your quote.

I agree with with the poor assembly, but it is not designed or equipt as well either. Let us compare my Lucerne with my LeSabre.

In the first 100k, the LeSabre was only back to the dealer for oil changes. The Lucerne on the other hand was back to the dealer at LEAST eleven times with less than 3K.

The tinted windows on the Lucerne are stuck on film in the inside of the window glass, not in between the glass. The dealer even scratched the tint when taking off the Option/price sticker.

Easy Exit seat in the LeSabre, the seat AND the back of the seat moves back according to the preset. In the Lucerne, only the seat moves back, not the seat back, and if the seat is fully back like I drive, Easy Exit does nothing for me.

The LeSabre has a #1 and #2 key fobs. I have my seat and radio settings, my wife has hers. Open the car with the remote, and the seat and radio returns to the setting of the particular key fob. In the Lucerne, there is no #1 or #2 remote. You have to open the door and push either the 1 or 2 button on the door for the seat to move, but the radio stays where the previous driver had it. GM says this is how the Lucerne is.

LeSabre needed new front brake rotors at around 150k. Lucerne... warped front disks at 18k..and 90% of my mileage is highway and I do not ride the brakes.

LeSabre...very quiet ride at highways speeds. Lucerne... it can whistle dixie at the right speed.

LeSabre.. you can get out of the car without having to lift your foot 8 inches off the floor. The Lucerne has such a high door sill, you have to lift you foot so high your knee hits the steering wheel.

LeSabre...has Heads Up display on the windshield. The Lucerne does not.

LeSabre has Stabilitrak, the Lucerne doesn't

LeSabre...28MPG Lucerne 25MPG...same engine over the same highway.

LeSabre..you can open the trunk with a key. GM was too cheap to put a key lock in the Lucerne's trunk.

And so much more, but my fingers are getting tired, and I have forgotten some of the other problems.

. I am just beginning to get used to the Lucerne, and I hope all the bugs are now out of it. It is a really nice LOOKING vehicle, and I almost enjoy driving it now. However, on those occasions when I drive the seven year old LeSabre, I am reminded how poor the Lucerne is in its ride and amenities.

Please don't get me on the UAW and what they have done to the NA auto industry.

Have a good day.
PZ

[jase386]

just my two cents

in 1995 our family bought 3 1996 Chrysler Town and country vans.
all 3 identical. i know they arent buicks, but im using them for an example.

im still driving one, and fortunately all but the AC compressor and Rack and pinion are factory parts.

van #2 had 4 tranmission rebuilds before they put a new one in at 100k under warranty. also had various problems here and there, with the instrument cluster, the radio, winshield wipers, power locks. all within 100k miles

van #3 within the first 35k miles had all of the above, plus 2 cv axles, new rear suspension, and new bearing hub assemblies all the way around.

remember these are 3 identical vans. the van i drive was manufactured in june of 95.

the other two were manufactured in november 1995 with consecutive VIN numbers, which means they were built at the same time.

sometimes you get a bad one, and its very unfortunate. i work for a company that supplies car parts to the BMW plant in SC, and i can tell you that most material flaws arent found until several cars have been built with the flawed parts. i hate that polarzak is so down on his car, and that the dealer didnt put goodyear tires on his pretty black lucerne.. i hope they will get things worked out for him.

part of the stiff ride is probably gm trying to compete with the ruff riding little hondas and toyotas everyone loves. again just my pennies on the subject

[pcmos]

I rented a Buick Lucerne CXL for a week recently, I agree with polarzak on the ammenities. The Lucerne features are extremely limited compared to the LeSabre Limited model that I own.

My LeSabre driver information center gives me real time digital read outs for temperature, oil pressure, battery voltage, etc. The Lucerne driver information center provides none of that information.

The trunk release button is located in the stupid glove box on the Lucerne and there is no key access to the trunk, so your only option, even when seated in the driver's seat is the remote, the driver can't reach the glove box release button.

The Lucerne cup holders are worthless junk.

The steering wheel controls are clumsy compared to the simple and affective lesabre wheel layout.

The Lucerne door panel storage areas are worthless.

That said, I disagree with polarzak on the ride and handling. I've done a lot of work to stiffen (most people would say improve) the LeSabre ride. Unfortunately if you are a spirited driver, the stock LeSabre offers absolutely no satisfaction. The Lucerne, on the other hand, performs admirably in high speed curves and quick lane changes. Body roll in the Lucerne is drastically reduced. Brake balance is even better than the LeSabre, heavy braking in the Lucerne produces significantly less nose dive. The gearing of the 4t65e used in the lucerne is slightly different from that which was used on most of the LeSabre limited models (at least those with Y56 option). You'll notice the 3800 in the Lucerne revving much higher to produce slightly more peak power, but you sacrifice a lot of low-end torque and fuel economy. The interior panels on the Lucerne are worlds better, fit in finish is extraordinary compared to LeSabre. My dash in the LeSabre rattles over every little bump it sounds like the panels are about to fall off. Highway wind noise is drastically reduced in the Lucerne and the engine noise is managed well.

I think the Lucerne has potential, I would like to see the ammenities improved, the the Super model due in 08 should add to the features.

[pcmos]

I know a lot of people also have experience with Toyota and Lexus through friends or family. A good friend of mine drives a Toyota Avalon XLS and he can't help but to take jabs at me for driving the LeSabre. Now his Avalon essentially goes in for oil changes and routine maintance, its a 2002 with about 100k miles and he claims he's never had anything wrong with it. So finally recently I convinced him to let me drive it for a few hours on a trip we took and I realized why he doesn't have anything wrong with it. Simply because he doesn't care about certain things. For example, the steering rack has virtually no center, the car wanders the lane constantly on the highway. When you hit the brakes, the peddle sinks a good two inches before anything happens. Instrument panel back lights were burned out all over the place, just like my Buick (although I fixed them). It has some of the same interior rattles that my Buick has. The turning radius is pathetically large compared to my LeSabre. The whole front end shakes at 70mph to which my friend reminded me he usually doesn't "speed" although 70 is mild for me. The engine is terribly underpowered, and the supposedly wonderful 5 speed transmission is constantly hunting for the right gear, especially during passing manuevers, shifts are also soft and long. Low end torque is a foreign concept to an Avalon driver, when he drives my buick, he often spins the tires on takeoff.

The bottom line is that most people who drive ultra high end toyotas, hondas or those who jump to lexus and acura are often people who are upgrading from a lifetime of owning cheap japanese imports like the civic or the corolla. They don't complain as much and they aren't as picky about certain things because they don't expect much from a car. If you own a toyota carolla for years like my friend and then suddenly upgrade to an Avalon, your not going to notice highway vibrations, reduced torque, soft shifts, and worn out steering components. I've owned nothing but slightly used high end american luxury cars. When I drive an Avalon, i rate it against my lesabre or deville. When evaluating the Lucerne against what people tell you by word of mouth about lexus and acura or toyota, try to get a chance to drive one of those cars before you cut down your new Buick.