Steering problem w/'02 Civic HB SI

[PotIsYourFriend]

My steering wheel makes a weird noise (and sounds to be coming from the front as well) and it's more noticeable when I'm driving around 5 mph.. It's sounds like an old door opening slowly and feels weird when I move the steering wheel.. I tried to see if it was low on PS fluid but the book mentions nothing about it or where to add it at.. Is there something I'm missing with this? I thought it would be plain as day when I popped the hood to check the fluid level but was stumped to find it..

[dragos69ca]

I believe that you still need to find first the steering fluid reservoir and for this car I remember that is a remote reservoir - is not close to the pump but more likely to the passanger side of the engine - ...any way, it should be visible.
Coming back to your complain of noise I think that it's more from the column steering. When you have low steering fluid then the noise is more metalic noise, like a bearing without grease....your noise is more like a rubbing noise and could come from two places: rubber boots from the end tie rods from the steering rack, or from bushings from the column steering.
So, first find the reservoir and check the level, then if you can look under car check if both boots are ok (not broken, mostly because the boots are twisted) and if everything is OK then must be from column steering.

[PotIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by dragos69ca

I believe that you still need to find first the steering fluid reservoir and for this car I remember that is a remote reservoir - is not close to the pump but more likely to the passanger side of the engine - ...any way, it should be visible.
Coming back to your complain of noise I think that it's more from the column steering. When you have low steering fluid then the noise is more metalic noise, like a bearing without grease....your noise is more like a rubbing noise and could come from two places: rubber boots from the end tie rods from the steering rack, or from bushings from the column steering.
So, first find the reservoir and check the level, then if you can look under car check if both boots are ok (not broken, mostly because the boots are twisted) and if everything is OK then must be from column steering.

In the book that came with the car it talks about the capacity of every fluid and the location where to add it at from a picture but no where in the book does it mention where the PS fluid tank is located, it doesn't even say one thing about PS fluid..

[dragos69ca]

I'm confused now...For Civic 2002 Hatchback Si I found that must be an electric assist steering and not a Hydraulic steering (like other Civic except Hatchback). If your description is correct then is electric steering. Therefore you’ll have an EPS control Unit, torque sensor and electric motor that will assist the gear on turning. The noise could be from the electric motor and I don’t know much about electric stuff. See if you could find the problem after running a computerized test at dealer.

[PotIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by dragos69ca

I'm confused now...For Civic 2002 Hatchback Si I found that must be an electric assist steering and not a Hydraulic steering (like other Civic except Hatchback). If your description is correct then is electric steering. Therefore you’ll have an EPS control Unit, torque sensor and electric motor that will assist the gear on turning. The noise could be from the electric motor and I don’t know much about electric stuff. See if you could find the problem after running a computerized test at dealer.

LOL, I discovered I have an electric steering pump.. Why electric? To squeeze a few more HP?

[dragos69ca]

Electric steering is something new that every manufacturer is looking into it. Is not only the HP that you can gain but environmental friendly too ; the hydraulic system was kind of limited in variable assist steering (max three different efforts) but electric system is wide open for engineers to adapt it they way they want it. It’s something new that it’s going to be more and more on the market. Same way Saturn Ion….Chevy Malibu, etc.
The problem with the electric is that the mechanics are not experienced and misdiagnose is very high – like they are blaming the rack when most of the time is a problem with the electric system (motor, sensors, computer, etc).

[LVApex]

You could be dealing with 1 of two known problems with the EP3's steering assembly.

1. you could have damaged the upper bearing on one of the struts.
and
2. you may have ran in to the now infamous steering rack creak. Which is caused by the mounting point of the steering arms wearing against the steering rack its self and becoming lose. which requres you to either replace or rebuild the steering rack.

[dragos69ca]

Originally Posted by LVApex

You could be dealing with 1 of two known problems with the EP3's steering assembly.

1. you could have damaged the upper bearing on one of the struts.
and
2. you may have ran in to the now infamous steering rack creak. Which is caused by the mounting point of the steering arms wearing against the steering rack its self and becoming lose. which requres you to either replace or rebuild the steering rack.

I don't agree. If you have loose tie rods you will feel play at steering wheel but our friend's description is more like a rubbing noise. If the problem is from EP then stiff steering should be the effect (the motor doesn't assist the rack). Don't forget that the rack is a manual one (like old times, without hydraulic assist) and most of the times is nothing wrong with it. The manual rack can get damaged if he got the boots broken and contaminated that makes the rack rusty and sticky or the tie rods are worn out. In our case, because everything seems to be OK except the noise, I believe that the noise is from the joints from column steering. That's my opinion....

[LVApex]

I'm just playing the odds here, as the EP3 and its close cousins have suffered from a poorly designed steering rack. not the power assist or EPS, but literally a poorly desinged rack.

The problem lies with where the steering arm attaches to the Steering rack (Where part #13 bolts to the rack, see the little square extention with two bolts holding it to the rack?) That Square attachment point is the probable culpret here. as that attachment point its self starts to wear at its attachment point to the rack and causes a creaking sound.

[PotIsYourFriend]

Is this something I can just leave alone without repair? My car is loud so I don't hear it unless I'm idling in gear and hitting bumps or turning the wheel while moving..

[LVApex]

Well its not like its going to break. But it may get louder over time.

Re-ferberised racks can be had for a reasonable amount, just plan for it in the future.

[dragos69ca]

The problem lies with where the steering arm attaches to the Steering rack (Where part #13 bolts to the rack, see the little square extention with two bolts holding it to the rack?) That Square attachment point is the probable culpret here. as that attachment point its self starts to wear at its attachment point to the rack and causes a creaking sound.

/quote]

It's true, this design so called "Centre-Take-Off", very similar with Pontiac Grand Am is very bad regarding mounting system. But a wear at the component mentioned by you should result in a play in the tie rods and steering wheel.... I agree, I would not do anything for the moment..."wait for the baby to cry first and then you'll know that you have to change the diaper".

[PotIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by LVApex

Well its not like its going to break. But it may get louder over time.

Re-ferberised racks can be had for a reasonable amount, just plan for it in the future.

I have a warranty that I got through the car lot.. He said take it into Honda for any work.. Do you think this might be something that would be covered, since it's a known problem?

[LVApex]

Originally Posted by PotIsYourFriend

I have a warranty that I got through the car lot.. He said take it into Honda for any work.. Do you think this might be something that would be covered, since it's a known problem?

Yup, given that there is a Service bulliten regarding it.

[PotIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by LVApex

Yup, given that there is a Service bulliten regarding it.

Where? Because I'd like to print it out just incase they give me the run around..