searching for alternatives

[aorozco2]

is there any way to do any FI upgrade (tt or single) on a N/A without a vr-4 harness or ecu?

if so could the harness and ecu be replace with a greddy emanage (blue or ultimate)?

if so would I need any other type of management system aside from an emanage?


the question came up because alot of people that went the single route installed a vr-4 harness and ecu. is it needed or is there a way around it?

[talskinyguy]

First, you want the TT ECU and harness, but only the ECU is required. You can modify the NA harness.

Second, you have no idea what the greddy emanage is, and no.

[aorozco2]

Originally Posted by talskinyguy

First, you want the TT ECU and harness, but only the ECU is required. You can modify the NA harness.

how?

Originally Posted by talskinyguy

Second, you have no idea what the greddy emanage is

then tell me, that is why i asked the question in the first place.

Originally Posted by talskinyguy

and no.

thanks for the constructive feedback.
would you mind explaining it.

[Stealthee]

Some have used the NA ECU but it holds you back on power. I believe one of those using the NA ECU recorded a 50+ hp increase from just switching to a TT ECU.

[aorozco2]

couldnt you fix that by tuning it.

[Stealthee]

Nope it was tuned. Something about the NA ECU has no maps and doesnt see boost like the TT ecu.

[Linebckr49]

Originally Posted by Stealthee

Nope it was tuned. Something about the NA ECU has no maps and doesnt see boost like the TT ecu.

exactly. the NA ECU has no idea of what 'boost' is. that's why you need a TT ECU. you can get by with an NA ECU, but you are only holding your car back. don't cut corners. do it right.

an Arozco, you don't need a greddy emanage. that's for experienced tuners. you should start out with an AFC (air flow converter). Apexi makes a few (S-AFC, S-AFCII, S-AFC Neo), HKS makes an S-AFR that similar to the S-AFC II. also, its a good idea to get a wideband O2 sensor so you can see the true A:F ratio, which will help you tune better.

[Igovert500]

You can splice some resistors inline with the injectors, and hack/solder whatever other connections are different between the NA and TT harness...everythign you need to know on how to do that is in the FAQ...between Bob the Great's site and stealth316's ecu pin diagrams. If reading those isn't enough info for you, then you probably don't wanna be hacking up your ecu wiring to begin with. No offense, that's just how I feel.

But in all seriousness, you can get a tt ecu and harness shipped to your door for $350....probably half that if you really shopped around. If you can't afford that, you shouldn't be doing the TT conversion. End of discussion.

Greddy e-manage and the like are additions to the ecu. They are called 'piggybacks' because in essence, that is what they do...they hop on the backs of the ecu...they don't replace them. Now you could swap in an AEM EMS or similar standalone ECU...however at that point, you are talking $2k, plus tuning costs...which makes no sense if you are trying to shortcut on the original $350 ecu and harness.

[aorozco2]

Originally Posted by Igovert500

You can splice some resistors inline with the injectors, and hack/solder whatever other connections are different between the NA and TT harness...everythign you need to know on how to do that is in the FAQ...between Bob the Great's site and stealth316's ecu pin diagrams. If reading those isn't enough info for you, then you probably don't wanna be hacking up your ecu wiring to begin with. No offense, that's just how I feel.

But in all seriousness, you can get a tt ecu and harness shipped to your door for $350....probably half that if you really shopped around. If you can't afford that, you shouldn't be doing the TT conversion. End of discussion.

I never stated that i didnt want to spend the money on it or cut corners, i just wanted some info on something that was on my mind.

Originally Posted by Igovert500

Greddy e-manage and the like are additions to the ecu. They are called 'piggybacks' because in essence, that is what they do...they hop on the backs of the ecu...they don't replace them. Now you could swap in an AEM EMS or similar standalone ECU...however at that point, you are talking $2k, plus tuning costs...which makes no sense if you are trying to shortcut on the original $350 ecu and harness.

i know they dont replace the ecu i never stated that they did. and like i said on top i wasnt trying to cut corners, i was just searching for some words of wisdom. and other ways to acomplish things, not a cheaper way just a different way.


this are some other answers that i got on another forum.

I strapped an eManage Blue to mine. It takes care of fuel management and timing, so you should be ok with just that. Keep in mind though, it's not all about the equipment. A horribly tuned eManage map will still destroy your motor over time. It would be a wise desicion to pick up some sort of datalogger on the side so you know if something's going wrong in there.

Yes, many people have done the TT conversion using only a piggyback on the N/A ECU. You will have to modify the wiring harness to accommodate the eManage. I've already installed my eManage and logger, and next month I plan on using the combo on my FI quest. It's very do-able.

That said, the TT ECU will give you a much better base to tune from, and should be taken into consideration if you plan on going this route. You accomplish the same goal either way.

does someone have more useful info on this.

[Igovert500]

ok, my fault, didn't understand your original post I guess. I thought you were looking for a cheaper alternative..because frankly, I don't believe there is any actual other reason to ask this question. (zero offense meant by that)

Yes you can toss on a piggyback like an e-manage and hope to get a decent tune from it. But as said in one of the quotations you quoted, the TT ecu provides a much better baseline tune (staring point). You could in theory run e-manage with an NA ecu, although I guarentee tuning will be a plenty more difficult, and the results will most likely be not as good as you could have gotten with a TT ecu and e-manage. With the NA ecu, you have FAR more corrections to make. I personally just see ZERO reason to not spend the extra bit of cash and pick up a used TT ecu. I view it as seriously cutting corners if you do...because as talskinyguy originally said..it isn't a 'replacement'.

Bottom line...the e-manage isn't even practically necessary if you plan to run stock turbos and boost. Tuning beyond that, yes, some equivalent will become necessary...but that doesn't 'replace' the TT ecu as a starting point.

Hope that made some sense, I've been drinking.

[aorozco2]

this was just a "is it possible" questions and nothing else. it got in my head a couple of days ago and decided to just ask.

thanks for the info, i am just here to learn.

[jason_bet]

if you need the wire harness i got one.. just incase you are actualy considering the swap