94 APV 3.8 Won't Start

[theresa66]

Have a 94 Lumina APV - was halfway to work Sunday morning and it died - it turns over - will not start. Put a new crank sensor on it 6 months ago - thought maybe it went bad again - changed it - no fix. pulled the camshaft sensor wire (someone told us if it was bad and you unplugged it would possibly start - just don't run it without it) still no start. the fuel pump is fine and has a new fuel filter. Are we headed in the right direction by changing the ignition control module? Can it be tested off the vehicle? Oh one thing I forgot - a couple of miles before it died, I had to turn off the heater because of the burnt wiring smell - we CANNOT find a burnt wire anywhere, if the ICM burnt up could that be the smell? We also checked fuses and all are good.

Anybody got any more ideas of things to check? And was the guy right about the camshaft sensor test?

Theresa

[theresa66]

well ICM did not fix it. guess will try to pull the codes somehow - which means dragging to the local garage.

Theresa

[LMP]

Well...'94 is still OBD1 and if the plug has A and B connectors, you can read the codes yourself:
www.avigex.ca/xport/readingcodes.jpg
bottom line:

connect A and B with a small wire
TUrn key to ON
Check Engine Light will flash 12 three times (1 blip, then 2 blips...and again)
after that each code wil flash 3 times like 54 is 5 blips then 4 blips.
TO finish, it flashes 12 again
By hte way, if you run the heater blower at full speed for long time, it WILL smell burnt wire: HIGH speed must be considered for short time bursts only..otherwise better prepare for blower motor change.
One thing you must do: pull a spark plug wire, insert a spare spark plug and let it rest on metal surface than start: you will see if you have spark....

[theresa66]

well my ports are not in the same spots - I have a connector in the two end ports on the right just like that one in the picture - but the only other connector in mine is on the bottom row - 3 over from the right.

We took it to have it read once before when the crank sensor went bad the first time but it still ran intermittently, he said we had the in between years that had to have a special reader, anyone ever heard that before?

If anyone can tell me how to read that one - would be glad to pull the codes myself.

Theresa

[LMP]

What counts is having pins A and B: then what is said above applies.
If you do not have pin B..this is still a 12 pin connector; this is 2nd version OBD1; it must be read with a factory scanner or using an interface (you can build or buy) with a portable computer.
http://www.aldlcable.com/sc/details.asp?item=aldlobd1
http://www.pontiac-interface.de

[theresa66]

Well I've ordered the cable - it is a 12 pin port - just no B connector. We are getting no fire, I am thinking cam position sensor, any thoughts on that. We have replaced the crankshaft sensor again, put new coil pack and ICM - still no fire. It's about the only thing we haven't tested and replaced.

Figure have to do something while I am waiting for the cable to get here. it's cheaper than towing it to garage and having them put on machine to pull the codes - I know there has to be codes stored - the SES was on when it died.
My husband is tearing his hair out on this one - and now he feels we are at standstill until we get the cable to get the codes - any one have any idea on what else we can check in the meantime since we are not getting fire?

Theresa

[LMP]

www.avigex.ca/xport/dtc18.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/dtc18procedure.jpg
cam sensor would not inhibit spark as it is used for injection sychronisation only as spark is fired at each revolution, regardless of power stroke as 2 cylinders are fired at same time.
so that must be something else....not sure what at this time.
DO you hear the fuel pump buzz for a second or two at KEY ON?
...and... you did check all fuses in glove compartment you said..cause this burnt smell could be linked to that problem after all....and the fuse hanging near the relays beside radiator?..(if fuel pump runs, it is good...)...and..problems with the ignition switch have been reported before....that smells too..
.

[theresa66]

Yes fuel pump is working - it runs builds up and kicks off, new fuel filter in the last 6 months - fuel is making it to the injectors.
Theresa

[theresa66]

We were just discussing the ignition switch, i have had some weird things going on there, like you turn the key to off position and radio comes on - you use the remote unlock - the radio comes on - the windshield wipers are a whole nother issue - they have a mind of their own and run when they want as long as they want - even in off position. so we know there were some wiring issues, was just trying to figure out how it could tie into no spark.

[LMP]

The wiper issue is a very common well known separate problem that has its own solution. WIll update links on this.
There it is: Common problem, easy to fix, 0$: check this thread out and all the links that are contained:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=627829

[theresa66]

Thanks, Dennis said he will try that - if he gets it running, says he is not working on another bleeping thing on it if he can't get it running LOL - can you tell he is a little disgusted and frustrated. Thanks for all your help on this.
Theresa

[LMP]

THis is the ignition schematic:
www.avigex.ca/xport/ignition3800.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/ignitionkey.jpg

[marc4d]

Theresa, I just went thru the same exact thing!
I replaced the ignition module and all the coils and the crank sensor and still had no spark.
Thats when i found this forum and was searching in the wrong place as i was looking for it in Lumina forums instead of Lumina APV.
But luckily somebody over on that forum had the solution for my van.
Ok the wires (4 of them) that comes from the crank sensor are routed really close to the engine and have gotten brittle and cracked from the years of use. I had to remove my alternator and brackets that hold my ignitoin module in place to get to them .But sure enough all four of my wires were brittle and completely bare in spots with no corrosion at all just bare copper wire. All i did was double wrap each wire in electrical tape and the cocooon the whole harness in electrical tape. The whole time doing this I still had my doughts that this would work and was thinking this was just another waste of my time.
But finished up and dropped my battery back in and woooohoooo its alive after 3 months of cursing and knuckle busting I cant believe i didnt come to the automotive forums sooner!
Oh and my wipers have a mind of their own also but my steering column turn signal lever thingamabob is totally jacked up and im looking for a new column.Actually if the taping wire idea didnt work i was gonna replace the column next thinking maybe thats why no spark!lol....Marc

[LMP]

Marc I hope you have read in that forum about the wiper syndrome: this is a 0$ fix ;here is the link:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=627829
and follow the links that are included...

[theresa66]

Well glad yours was able to be fixed, ours was a wiring problem too - a little more serious though - the smoke I smelled through the heating vents was the wiring harness burning up, it took out the computer, the ICM, and at least 7 other sensors and such I can't even remember all of them, when we sat down and started figuring up what it was going to cost to fix, plus some of the things that burnt up are dealer only items YAY - we realized we were going to spend about three times what we paid for it, so we had the funeral for it last Thursday.

Am actually looking for another one, 95 or newer - but with the 3.1 instead of the 3.8 - we have a lead on a couple of them pretty close to home.

Theresa