'93 Metro 5 spd manual oil level

[DOCTORBILL]

I changed my '93 3 cylinder's 5 speed manual transmission oil this winter.
(Posted in another thread)

The Chilton Manual says it should hold 2.5 quarts, but I could only get just
under 2 quarts back in it before it spilled out the fill hole.

Most folks find the same thing.

I think my transmish is noisy, however.

So I want to add more oil via that Clutch cable hold-down bolt on top of the
transmish that gooes thru to the inside.

OK....that said, does anyone see a problem with pouring another half-quart of
oil into the transmish...?

My transmish makes a lot of noise when I start the engine cold and allow it
to warm up.

If I push the clutch in, the noise stops.....

I'd like to have more oil in that sucker so that everything gets bathed in oil
upon startup.

As long as there is an air space above the oil, it should be OK - no?

Any comments?

DoctorBill

[Scrapper]

i see no problem either on oil except when you fill it up until it comes back out of hole that should be full..but if you have noise in clutch probably your throw-out bearing.....good luck...

scrapper...

[doug7x]

Hey, Dr. Bill...I've been following your "Phoenix" adventure, & have picked up a few things, so maybe I can return one to you...Do NOT fill your gearbox beyond the level plug. Gearboxes need thier oil to be at a certain LEVEL, rather than a specific volume. Overfilling could cause excessive pressure (blown seals) and increased windage resistance (more drag & heat). As far as the noise, adding extra gear oil won't help. (unless you were bone dry, & I'm sure that you would have mentioned if you were). In the Chicago area, metro 5 speeds go for around 200.00, so , if it gets too bad to drive, just swap it out. Good Luck, & thanks for a great thread.

[GM Line Rat]

My 2 cents says Dont overfill it Doc! If the fluid is coming out of the hole......It's full! My 94 Metro 5 Speed was refilled with new fluid last year when I did an engine swap into it, when the fluid came out of the filler hole, I capped it off and haven't checked it since....I also installed a new EXEDY clutch kit before putting the engine in.....It's nice and quiet....Clutch out or pushed in.


Exedy clutch kit

[DOCTORBILL]

I should record the noise I hear and put it on the Internet so you folks can hear it.

When I start the engine this winter, the transmission is loud and sounds like a
"dry bearing" - then when I push the clutch pedal in, the sound goes away.

Comes back when I let the clutch pedal out.

After the engine warms up, the sound is gone.

It is not coming from the engine block - from toward the right side of the Transmission.

I don't get the sound after driving (warm system), at stop lights with the clutch
pedal out, nor when starting up again when I stop at a store, etc.

What would be doing this - and should I worry about it...?

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

might be the throwout bearing making noise

[GM Line Rat]

Originally Posted by Crvett69

might be the throwout bearing making noise

+1 Doc....If you can milk it along till the weather gets warmer out, You should just buy the entire clutch kit I posted in the link. These are good clutch kits for our Metro's and the same kit I installed last year....They ship fast too! It comes with a new throwout bearing and pilot bearing for the flywheel too.....But you'll need to pull the tranny out to install the kit... . When your ready, were here to help......The old clutch in my 5 speed had 110K miles on it, but it still worked! Not wanting to "Tempt Fate", I replaced the whole clutch setup while the old DOA engine was out of the car..... To install the kit either the engine needs to be out or the tranny needs to be pulled.......Now you know why?

[DOCTORBILL]

Is there a thread in this or other forums where one is shown what to do...
with pictures maybe...?

I suppose my Chilton Manual has a half-assed explanation, but if someone would
post the method with pictures it sure would be nice....hint, hint, hint...

How difficult is this process?

What "Special tools" are required?

What costs are involved besides the kit you posted before?

Could a half-wit like myself do it without screwing the pooch?

DoctorBill

PS - how long before the transmish fails...?

What will I experience as the transmish goes south...?

[Crvett69]

i can get the jdm low mile trannys for about $150. i know you don't get over this way much but if you do you can use my shop and if you run into a problem i can help you. its about a 2-3 hour job to replace the clutch, you just pull the tranny and its not to hard if its up in the air

[GM Line Rat]

How many miles are on your car and is your 5 speed manual the original tranny Doc? If it's getting pretty high in miles, I'd say take Crvett69 up on the offer and replace the tranny with a low mile JDM he can get....You just re-did the engine Doc....Makes sense to me! Yes, If you rebuilt your Engine with help from this forum....You can easily pull your old tranny out and swap it or put a new clutch kit in it. I had never did a clutch kit on a Metro before and I (With the basic instructions in my Haynes manual) Did a complete clutch swap in less than an Hr but again, the engine was out so removing the flywheel to change the pilot bearing/Pressure plate/clutch assy was a little easier.....It's no big deal, even if the engine is in the car. The new throwout bearing goes on the tranny itself. When you decide what your going to do Doc, we can get into full details with pics unless your going the replacement route at Crvett69's Shop? (Easy and fast). I have access to a lift at my neighbors house across the street, but I didn't use it when I did my engine swap and a tranny swap can be done with the car on jackstands. Cant tell you what the symptoms of a 5 speed going south might be because I've never had one that did......Yet! I have a spare 5 Speed tranny, wrapped in plastic and sitting in the corner of my garage when mine finally does?

[DOCTORBILL]

First - I will record th sound I get and set the file up so's you can hear it...

Second - even if the throwout bearing (or the other one?) is worn, how bad does
it have to get before I can't drive the car?

I don't want to do this Clutch Job until I really have to!
A "noise" is not a big deal if it doesn't mean permanent damage is occurring...

Third - Since I "did" the engine, I am of the mind that I might as well fix the
transmish and not just replace it....$105 for the kit (cost + shipping) versus
$150 plus shipping (or more?) for the JDM transmish (with unknown wear on it).

I like the concept of fixing something and knowing what's left when I am done
versus replacing it with an unknown part of unknown condition and hoping the
replacement is better than what I could do myself repairing it. (wordy explanation).

Fourth - Once I repair the clutch with that kit, would the transmish be likely
to go another 150,000 miles w/o problems? The gears themselves don't wear
very much do they? Do other bearings in the Transmish go out?

Fifth - the only other bad part of a "do it myself" job is that I can't do a
syncromesh repair....does syncro last a long time?

Sixth - once the transmish is out of the vehicle, to me it is 50:50 as to
replacing the Transmish versus repairing it myself...

So I am of a mind to repair the bugger myself - but only if it really needs it
and only if those two bearings and clutch plates are the only major items needing repair....

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

only problem is what if you get it out and find out you can't repair it or its to expensive for whatever is bad. if you have a low mile one to put in you can have the car back on the road fast. you can always take yours apart then and see what it needs to fix it. if you look at teamswift under transmission there is a section on what it takes to pull it apart and go through it with exploded views. read that then decide if you want to tackle it

[GM Line Rat]

JDM tranny's are low mile Doc (40-60K on them) but bear in mind, the clutch assy is attached to the flywheel, which is attached to the engine so your unlikely to be getting a 40 to 60K mile clutch assy with your low mile JDM tranny.....Again I ask Doc......How many miles are on the tranny and is it the original trans?.....This would be the deciding factor for me in just replacing the clutch assy (Which requires pulling the trans) or replacing both the tranny AND a new clutch Kit to go with it also.

[DanMan7]

As for myself, I have tranny problems. BUT it shifts very smoothly, no grinding of any sort. Clutch slips though (only engages about an inch from top of pedal movement). So while I'm replacing my engine I'm putting in a new clutch set. Should solve the problem. I know original trannys last a long time if kept up properly. I still have the original tranny, however, with 159,000 miles. Probably original clutch too. Doubt if it's ever been replaced (the clutch).

[DOCTORBILL]

GM Line Rat - Sorry, I forgot to answer your question.....I have a 5 second
attention span these days! No kidding!

I bought this car (The Phoenix) used in April of 2005. It had 148,000 miles
on it. It now has 161,000 miles.

I have not a clue what the previous owner(s) had done to it.

I can only assume that the 161,000 miles it now has is the original total.

Can someone tell me if the sound I am hearing at cold weather startup is BAD
or just a prelude to wear?

The only way I can describe it is the sound some bearings make when dry.

Why would it do that only when really cold out?

Startup in normal weather (above 32 deg) produces no such sound in the transmission.

As usual, if I hear some sound in a car, I worry about it....I'm nuts!

Let me understand this....even if I put in a JDR tansmission, I may still have to
buy the clutch kit....

Again - if my transmish is changing gears nicely, clutch not slipping, not
heating up, not making funny noises (besides the one described), then I am
likely in possession of a good tranny that may only need a throwout bearing...if anything!

And this car may work just fine for 50,000 more miles w/o any problem...yes?

DoctorBill

PS - HOW does the "throwout bearing" get lubrication?