97' PA fuel pump or fuel pump relay????

I have a 97 Park Avenue.It just does not start at times.A couple of mechanics said it was the fuel pump,but they were not able to verify that.Due to the fact that everytime I take to a mech. it is running.It does not pull any codes when scanned.
this morning it would not start.A mechanic said tap the bottom of the gas tank and see if it might get the fuel pump to work.NOT. did not work.Thing is,the problem can occur while driving(it dies) or when you first try to start it or after I've been to the store and it wont start.bummer

I took the cover off the fuse panel under the hood and looking at my fuse block diagram I pulled the fuse linked to the fuel pump relay,put it back in and the car started.That's the second time i did this and same result.Now my question is? Replace the fuel pump relay or the fuel pump?
A couple of times i could not hear the pump come on but that could also be because of the relay? hmmm
I'm no mechanic,but I think I might try the relay and a new fuel filter.
Any suggetions will be greatful.

[Bassasasin]

Changing the pump is a pain. Drain tank, remove tank, buy $250 pump..

Fuel filter would starve the engine when using power.. Like passing or uphill.. etc
I think its a recommended item after so many miles anyway.


Relay is easy.. I understand...



Good Luck

[northstar1958]

Dm:

I think i'd start with a new fuel filter, my experiance with bad fuel pumps are;
once the vehicle is running, it will stay running till you shut it off. Usually when the relay is bad, its just bad and don't work at all. You've got one of those sometimes it works...sometimes it don't, mechanical problems. If your gonna try and figure it out yourself, you've got the right idea, start with the least expensive fix and work your way back...fuel filter/relay/fuel pump. How many miles on the vehicle? Do you remember the last time the filter was changed? Theres one good piece of news....the 97 pa doesn't require you to drop the tank to change the fuel pump (if you have to)....Theres an access panel in the trunk under the liner. Good luck

Northstar

[olredhead]

Dm, also have a '97 PA and have had fuel problems which turned out to be a connector between the fuel pump and the relay. Check under your car on the drivers side, just inboard from the fuel filter. There will be three connectors held up by a bracket, the outboard or largest plug is the correct one. Unplug, check and reconnect then try. Hope this helps. olredhead

Replaced fuel pump.(used) but cheaper than 300.00
Will post when i find out for sure that this fixed the problem.opcorn:

Well replaced the fuel pump.Thought all was well then (poof) did it again.This time waiting was the only way it started.Pulling fuses and tapping on the fuel tank did not work.
Wife took it to her mothers.40 miles away.Did not start again.I think because she cranked it for so long that the battery went dead.BUT she jump started it and it started just fine. She made it home,cut the car off,told me to look at it.Went out to start it and nothing.Just turned over.waited a couple of minutes and it started.
Took it to a mechanic,He said;Well it's running now.There's no codes,and that's hard to diagnose. DUH
Please read this:::::>>>>I went to start it and it acted as if it was going to start,then it made a WOOSHING sound(like air rushing out of the motor?????) I thought,Okay. Then went to start it again and WOOSH.Thinking FUEL related???Tried once more and it started.
Question? Could it be trying to jump time?????I would think if so,it would not start at all.????
Some said try another fuel pump.I listened to the other one and it seem to be running,but I thought I heard the fuel pump stutter while just turning the key but not starting it,and while placing my ear to the gas tank. Was also told it might be electrical??? Being that my ABS light will come one time and not the other. STUMPED

P.S. I heard there is a rebuild kit for these fuel pumps.I sen one on ebay but not to sure.Pump,socks,fuel tube.Any thoughts? Please

[Bassasasin]

A really good discription of whats happening is very helpful.
Fails to start when hot, cold, anytime.. etc..
Intermittent problems are most difficult.
The key gives a fuel pump voltage until pressure is up, then the PCM allows a single prime for start.

Fuel pumps can be checked for volume flow at pressure by the return side giving volume.

Basically, replacing parts till the problem dissappears.
With your woosh, you had a firing out of time with fuel.
This engine may fire a wasted spark during exhaust cycle, therefore a whoosh.

I would start with the ignition module under the coil pack, then the crankshaft sensor in the harmonic balancer wheel.


Good Luck

[Bassasasin]

Your woosh says you had ignition with fuel and no compression. The type car you have fires on compression and exhaust strokes.
I own 3 of them.
Jump timing is always present after the timing chain jumps and the engine will never run well after the jump.

Intermittent problems are most difficult.

Take the easiest path first, and change the ignition module under the coil pack.

Common intermittent ignition problems units are:
the ignition module under the coil pack
the coils or wires cross firing,
and the Crankshaft sensor under the Harmonic Balancer wheel.

Good Luck

Well, I had the ignition module tested and it is okay.They cycled it about 30 times to immulate the heat it gets while running.
BUT Now it will just die on you while driving down the road.Once that happens it will not start for awhile.Cranked it and nothing,went back the next day,and taadaaaa it started.
Got it home,turned it off and no start.Waited about 5 hours went back out and it started.

[Mickey#1]

Next time it stalls you need to be prepared to check for fuel pressure & or spark. We have to narrow this down to fuel or spark.

[Bassasasin]

Coil packs can do this but mostly the CRANKshaft sensor.

Good Luck

Don't know for sure but ,if it's the crank sensor,would it or would it not put out a CODE????

Originally Posted by dmhoo29

Don't know for sure but ,if it's the crank sensor,would it or would it not put out a CODE????

Also.Will the crank sensor keep the fuel pump from working?

[Mickey#1]

Crank sensors often fail without a code.
Crank sensor has nothing to do with fuel pump or pressure.
Are you sure you're not getting fuel pressure?
Have you checked the driver's side ground bus?

ground bus? please explain. As for fuel pressure.The car will run and then quit when it wants.It might start the same day or maybe the next day.LOL I'm lost,and can't afford to keep replacing parts.Also noticed the engine temp will go up for a minute or two after first friving it,then settles back to normal.Doesn't relly get hot just about 3/4 the way. it runs about half or less most the time.
I can't do the work myself.I had a heart attack 2 weeks ago.Now i'm more interested in my own pump and sensors.