Long awaited fix kit for 3.3L/3.8L now available

[appstech]

The kit is finally here.

http://www.midwayautosupply.com/pc-4...es-38379k.aspx

[Mrbizness1]

"A better solution has been developed by the Gates engineers. The System Solution includes a double sided Micro-V belt, a grooved idler pulley and matching tensioner which includes a grooved pulley. Each of the components are designed to work precisely with other parts in the system and offer a true solution"


Why don't they sell just the pulleys instead a making you replace the tensioner. And if their engineers are so confident why do you need that big washer?

[RIP]

Why do some have constant problems with belts slipping off and many have had these vans for years and never had the problem, rain or no rain?

[Spit]

This kit seems to retail for $129.99, If that's too priciy for anyone with this problem...you might want to order a pulley shield kit for about $10. You can see it at www.dormanproducts.com it's part number 82570. The description
for it is a power steering pulley shield kit...but the shield actually mounts on to the tensioner pulley. I put one on my 97 Grand Caravan 3.3 about 2 years ago and have not had a the belt slip off since. Piece of cake to install..slip the belt off, rremove the bolt that holds the pulley onto the tensioner install the shield with the new longer bolt that comes witht he kit and reinstall the belt. With this Dorman kit the shield ads a lip to the smooth idler and prevents the belt from sliding off. It's simple, effective and best of all cheap. Fits the 3.3 and 3.8 engine. My local Advance Auto Parts store ordered it for me from their distribution warehouse. had it in 3 or 4 days.

Spit

[Mrbizness1]

Originally Posted by RIP

Why do some have constant problems with belts slipping off and many have had these vans for years and never had the problem, rain or no rain?

My problem began with the Mopar belt installed by the dealer. Mopar doesn't make there own belts, I wonder if the vans losing belts are using belts made by the same company that makes them for Mopar.

The Dorman fix is a much simpler solution, I think Gates is trying to take advantage by selling the whole package.

Maybe its Gates that makes the Mopar belt.

https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-b...tegory_list=:0

[webbee]

I remember reading a post claiming that the recent dealer belts are slightly longer than in the past. The gist was that Gates, Goodyear and Dayco were better choices in replacement belts these days.
That Dorman shield looks pretty trick. I may add that to mine. Sure would hate to throw a belt out in the field.

[appstech]

Originally Posted by webbee

I remember reading a post claiming that the recent dealer belts are slightly longer than in the past. The gist was that Gates, Goodyear and Dayco were better choices in replacement belts these days.
That Dorman shield looks pretty trick. I may add that to mine. Sure would hate to throw a belt out in the field.

In my opinion the shild is a waste of money. Chrysler dealerhsips tried this type of fix but continued to have the belt fall off. If you read in some of the forums or http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_30931.html
you will quickly see that the Gates or Goodyear fix it really the only solution worth spending your money on.

[Spit]

I respect your opinion. I hope you can respect mine. What I am sharing with this forum is that I had this problem (with my 97 Grand Caravan with 3.3 engine) it was exactly as everyone at this forum, and the link you cite, have described. I put the $10 shield kit on about 2 years ago, and haven't had a problem since it was installed.

Keep in mind that this problem is with the 96-2000 vans. A whole lot of us at this forum are driving 7- 10 year old vehicles and fixing it ourselves to save $$. There is a $110 difference in cost of these two potential solutions. If we can fix it for $10 great..if not.. go for the $129.

Thing to keep in mind is that the smooth lip-less tensioner pulley is designed for the belt to slide off if there is an interuption or an excess of tension. In this case, just ahead of the power steering pump the belt is running pretty much horizontal with the grooves up, when water splashes onto the belt it wells into those grooves...like channels or canals. The water it just stuck there...When that water hits the power steering pulley the problem begins.that slip/slop causes enough of a fluctuation in the tension of the belt that it rolls right off..once the grip is restored the belt will right itself. My belt runs true down the center of the idler all the time..its only when the belt gets wet that it slides up along the lip..once the grip is back the belt "rights" itself.
.
This might all be better handled if Chrysler had designed an improved splash guard that would keep the water off of the belt/out of the grooves of the belt
in the first place. Since they haven't we get to have these discussions.

One thing that should be said this $10 pulley shield kit is not a fix -all, it will not compensate for a tensioner that has lost it's spring/tension, or bad bearings in an idler pulley, or a worn belt or any other component that is out of line. These componets have to be up to spec.

It seems like the $129 kit was designed by a team of engineers and the $10 kit was designed by a mechanic, Henry Ford said he didn't want to employ engineers "because all they did was tell him why what he wanted to do was impossible" ..and mechanics.. "well they just did it".

Based on my experiences I would suggest to anyone: try the $10 fix and if it doesn't work go to the $129.

Spit

[webbee]

In my case I don't have the problem and I don't want to have it either. I think I am going to put the Dorman product on and then go to the field fix kit when it is new belt time.
I'm so glad we have these options/forums as it helps us home wencher's keep auto maintenance in line, as Spit has pointed out. If you don't do the fix, then it's getting towed to a $tealer and really getting hosed on labor and parts, which may or may not work. At least when i do it and it doesn't work, I haven't also spent $75+ an hour for the privilege.

[Mrbizness1]

"Keep in mind that this problem is with the 96-2000 vans"

I wonder what the difference is in the later vans that they don't have this problem. Do they have grooved pulleys or fix kits?

[appstech]

Originally Posted by Mrbizness1

"Keep in mind that this problem is with the 96-2000 vans"

I wonder what the difference is in the later vans that they don't have this problem. Do they have grooved pulleys or fix kits?

In 2001, Chrysler totally redesigned the belt drive on the 3.3L/3.8L engine. The 4th generation van even has a special clutch and spring inside the alternator pulley to help control vibrations and calm the belt drive down. The alternator pulley is known as an alternator decoupler. I have never seen a belt jumping issue with the 2001-2006 minivan V6.

[Stevo2]

Originally Posted by Mrbizness1

"A better solution has been developed by the Gates engineers. The System Solution includes a double sided Micro-V belt, a grooved idler pulley and matching tensioner which includes a grooved pulley. Each of the components are designed to work precisely with other parts in the system and offer a true solution"


Why don't they sell just the pulleys instead a making you replace the tensioner. And if their engineers are so confident why do you need that big washer?

The tensioner is included because most people are too cheap to replace ALL the proper parts when doing a fix of this type. That's why there is a kit. This ensures the most reliable fix. The washer is a shield for the bearing and is not the same size as the Dorman fix. A tensioner from Mopar is over $100 so this kit is a steal at this price.

[Stevo2]

Originally Posted by Spit

I respect your opinion. I hope you can respect mine. What I am sharing with this forum is that I had this problem (with my 97 Grand Caravan with 3.3 engine) it was exactly as everyone at this forum, and the link you cite, have described. I put the $10 shield kit on about 2 years ago, and haven't had a problem since it was installed.

Keep in mind that this problem is with the 96-2000 vans. A whole lot of us at this forum are driving 7- 10 year old vehicles and fixing it ourselves to save $$. There is a $110 difference in cost of these two potential solutions. If we can fix it for $10 great..if not.. go for the $129.

Thing to keep in mind is that the smooth lip-less tensioner pulley is designed for the belt to slide off if there is an interuption or an excess of tension. In this case, just ahead of the power steering pump the belt is running pretty much horizontal with the grooves up, when water splashes onto the belt it wells into those grooves...like channels or canals. The water it just stuck there...When that water hits the power steering pulley the problem begins.that slip/slop causes enough of a fluctuation in the tension of the belt that it rolls right off..once the grip is restored the belt will right itself. My belt runs true down the center of the idler all the time..its only when the belt gets wet that it slides up along the lip..once the grip is back the belt "rights" itself.
.
This might all be better handled if Chrysler had designed an improved splash guard that would keep the water off of the belt/out of the grooves of the belt
in the first place. Since they haven't we get to have these discussions.

One thing that should be said this $10 pulley shield kit is not a fix -all, it will not compensate for a tensioner that has lost it's spring/tension, or bad bearings in an idler pulley, or a worn belt or any other component that is out of line. These componets have to be up to spec.

It seems like the $129 kit was designed by a team of engineers and the $10 kit was designed by a mechanic, Henry Ford said he didn't want to employ engineers "because all they did was tell him why what he wanted to do was impossible" ..and mechanics.. "well they just did it".

Based on my experiences I would suggest to anyone: try the $10 fix and if it doesn't work go to the $129.

Spit

Your van may be an exception due to tolerance buildups, but thousands of others prove your van to be in the minority. I can respect your opinion but there are times when you should spend the money to do a better job than what is just merely acceptable. Give up the 12 cases of beer, 10 cartons of cigarettes and the case of Viagra under one's bed. Most people on these forums would rather waste $100's of dollars attempting to fix their car/suv without a service manual or a even a small conception of how a car operates. At some point in one's life it's time to stop being conservative and justify it with a statement that says "I saved $$". Sounds like the bleeding heart statement "I'm a single parent" so feel sorry for me. So if the kit is a 100% effective fix than a person doesn't have to worry about the little lady and the rugrats crashing when the belt flies off and the steering locks up? One should install the absolute best fix available...period.
As for the smooth pulley vs the lipped pulley, they have both failed on this particular application. The smooth pulley is NOT designed to allow the belt to come off when there is an interruption in belt drive. If this were so, there would be a tremendous liability problem with all the manufacturers. If you have a bad bearing in an accessory drive unit that is powered by the belt than that is due to poor/cheap maintenance of these accessories. Have to replace these parts before they lock up and cause damage or fires. It's called Preventative Maintenance.
After making thousands of posts in these forums, I have found that we never hear when a person's band-aid fix fails and they have to have the vehicle towed or totaled.

[Mrbizness1]

Originally Posted by Stevo2

The tensioner is included because most people are too cheap to replace ALL the proper parts when doing a fix of this type. That's why there is a kit. This ensures the most reliable fix. The washer is a shield for the bearing and is not the same size as the Dorman fix. A tensioner from Mopar is over $100 so this kit is a steal at this price.

Its not a question of being cheap, why change out a good part for no reason. They should offer the individual parts also. Rock auto.com has 4 tensionors listed priced between $35-$45 made by Gates, Dayco, AC Delco and Four Seasons.

https://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mak,DODGE

Notice Gates doesn't mention the tensioner here.


"The pulley grooves and belt ribs of Gates System Solution Kit lock together making it virtually impossible for the belt to jump off the drive. Even misalignment problems can be solved. The "unfixable" now becomes "fixable" thanks to Gates"

[appstech]

Originally Posted by Mrbizness1

Its not a question of being cheap, why change out a good part for no reason. They should offer the individual parts also. Rock auto.com has 4 tensionors listed priced between $35-$45 made by Gates, Dayco, AC Delco and Four Seasons.

https://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mak,DODGE

Notice Gates doesn't mention the tensioner here.


"The pulley grooves and belt ribs of Gates System Solution Kit lock together making it virtually impossible for the belt to jump off the drive. Even misalignment problems can be solved. The "unfixable" now becomes "fixable" thanks to Gates"

Why not call gates and ask them why they don't offer the components seperately? I would immagine that they are having a hard time keeping up with the huge demand for this kit, and will offer components seperatly some time down the road. All I know is that the gates fix kit works absolutley amazing. I would have to agree with Stevo2 and say "Don't be cheap". I feel that the kit is very well priced, all things considering. I like knowing that my family is safe and this fix kit does that for me.