A point I wish I didn't have to make...

[Peloton25]

I'm going to be intentionally vague here as I don't want to single people out.

It was brought to my attention that some members of our forum may at times be overstepping their bounds in attempts to make contact with owners, or in their communications with places that may be offering F1s for sale. The fact that people felt the need to mention it to me means that it has become a real problem. I wasn't asked to create this thread, but felt I needed to say something in the hope I could put a stop to this negative behavior that is damaging the reputation of our forum. Without getting into the specific details of one or more situations I have some thoughts I would like to share. I can't tell anyone what to do of course, but hopefully my comments will do some good in the future.

For starters, and I can not stress this enough, be honest! It often will pay dividends, especially in the long term. Telling stories in order to gain access to a car or the information related to one is not the approach any of us should be using. You don't have to be a potential owner or the agent of one in order to get information about a car or get a chance to see one. That's just a silly approach and will likely backfire on you at some point, thus spoiling that source for you and others as well. Not good...

Secondly, no one should be climbing over walls or hiding in bushes or the like in order to see/photograph an F1. We are not stalkers or criminals here and this forum does not promote that kind of behavior. I don't want anyone even thinking that this forum is promoting it either. If obeying the law and acting appropriately means the difference between getting a few photos of a car that might not otherwise be seen, I'd much rather live without those photos honestly. Some of these F1s are reclusive enough already - there's no reason to compound that problem further by giving people a reason to worry or be upset.

Ultimately those negative actions I mentioned hurt all of us who are enthusiasts by causing those who are in a position to share something like an F1 to be much more reluctant to do so. This is especially true in the case of a business, which must work hard to ensure that no one else tries to invade their territory so to speak. The exotic car world is quite messy with various brokers pressing to involve themselves in transactions of cars they have no business selling. This is why we often find the same car for sale in multiple locations or a phony listing may appear in a place like Ebay. Those sorts of things hurt the legitimate businesses out there. Not to mention, phony ads also waste a serious customer's time and money too as they try to wade through the BS. It's for this reason primarily why some dealerships do not allow photos to be taken inside their locations now - a frustrating situation for car fans like us, but often a necessary measure of protection for them.

Luckily - the people involved with these cars are often willing to share a little of their time with an enthusiast. Assuming that you do use the right approach, show proper respect, and realize they aren't obligated to do anything for you - more often than not it will produce good results. It won't always of course, and you have to be willing to live with that and simply move on.

Remember too that they are likely an enthusiast themself, or can recall a time when they were captivated by an automobile of some variety and know how good it felt when someone let them experience something they normally would not.

In fact, the owner of #068 told me a neat story this summer about when he was a boy and there was a Ferrari in the town he lived in. Every day after school he would ride his bike over to the business where this Ferrari was parked just to see the car. Finally one day the owner came out and offered to give him a ride in the car if he would just stop coming by each day and getting his bicycle so close to the car. I'm sure this experience from his childhood played into his willingness to share his car with me when he did. Hopefully I can return the favor to some wide eyed kid in my future - 'Pay it Forward' as they say.

I'll climb off my soapbox now, but please take my comments seriously for the good of all involved on both sides of the fence.

>8^)
ER

[hurstg01]

[cabrio92]

I agree,

I hope never be in this case
When I send an email to a garage, I simply say i am a car enthusiast, etc... I never lies.
It's often frustrating also when you have no answer at all...
I prefer have a negative answer than no answer at all but in this case, the lack of respect is on the other side...

Phil

[F1 monster]

Good post, and a bit dsappointing that it had to be said. Please be respectful at all times.

[Le Man]

I totally agree Erik,

Grasp this...... I had known for quite some time, of an F1 owner who lives only a few miles from me. I even know his address and phone number. But I felt that it would be inappropriate, to even consider contacting him. I felt that I should only approach the owner, if I was ever to meet him by chance at a race meeting etc and only then.(it even had a HDF kit fitted, do you realise how painfull that was .SO NEAR, YET SO FAR)

One owner, who frequents our forum on a regular basis, contacted me via PM. So I took the opportunity then to ask, if it was possible to view his F1 at his convenience. Which he accepted and I was extremely greatfull for.

It pays to be courteous and polite at all times and respect the owners wishes if they want to remain unobtainable. This also goes for dealers as well!!

(There are a few other owners, I would like to PM me )

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by F1 monster

Good post, and a bit dsappointing that it had to be said.

You're right about that. In fact, I have changed the title of the thread to match that feeling.

Thanks for everyone's understanding and support.

>8^)
ER

[cabrio92]

LeMan > beautiful history ! This forum is fantastic and more and more.

I imagine who is the owner who show you his F1 (what a moment wahooo) but I don't see the other

Phil

[ArchangelGTR]

The beauty of the McLaren is not only the physical beauty and engineering but its rarity.. that chance... like a mythological beast that fate happens to bestow a glimpse. If everyone is hunting for one, it will disappear into obscurity hidden from all, becoming the subject of legends and distant memories.

Please read and reread what Peloton has posted. In the end, your chance of seeing one is higher with owners and businesses that respect your honesty and enthusiasm rather than dishonesty and vulgar stalking.

[Mcl@ren]

I, Contrary to the wishes of Peloton, have tried to make contact with an F! owner, but to no avail. I mananged to get hold of this owners cousin and left my details. My reason for contacting was to try and have the car shown at a particular show. Unfortunatly i have not heard from the owner or from his cousin since, and prir to this thread being started have decided to not pursue any further. Had the owner wished to contact me he would have already.

I agree with peloton in all respects of what he has said and my only reason for trying to get hold of the owner was because i was asked to by the show organisers.

[carbuilder2002]

At the 2005 Goodwood festival of speed I left my contact details with the people looking after 10R detailing my intentions to build a large scale model of a GTR. Of course being a pessemist I expected that to be the end of it, to my surprise the both the owner and caretaker of the car contacted me within 2 months of the event with offers of help.
Unfortunatley we have yet to find a mutually agreeable time to set up a meeting. May have more luck when I take semi-retirement.
Yes I did know who the owner was, which is why I was even more surprised that he contacted me.

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by Mcl@ren

I, Contrary to the wishes of Peloton...

Just to clarify, my point was not to suggest people refrain from any attempts at trying contact an owner/agent. In fact, I encouraged you in that situation you are referencing and made a similar effort on my own to try and help out. No results on my end yet either.

My point here is that when you do make the attempt that it's important to be honest, be polite and always remember that they have no obligation to respond to any request. You may not like the response you get, or as in the case of carbuilder, you may be pleasantly surprised by the willingness and generosity that is displayed. It's all up to them which is certainly to be expected.

>8^)
ER

[Mcl@ren]

there is nothing worse, no matter what the circumstances than having a bull sh1tter in ones presence. I for one, hate dishonesty. And yes, we see it all over E-bay and probably in this forum too. fortunatly for those of us whom are honest, we can normally smell a rat.

Quite often, people who are dishonest eventually end up contradicting themselves and have to tell more lies just to cover up their first.