Minimum-wage increase for everyone exept for Samoa

[gdalton]

So Miss Nancy decides that it is the government’s responsibility to tell all employers exactly how much their employees are worth, unless of course you are a company that sends donations her way.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/...0720-2734r.htm

So there you have it folks the compassionate politician who only cares about everyone’s welfare, well almost everyone, apparently if you live in American Samoa territories then life is already peachy and you are in no need of a minimum-wage hike. I mean after all if Del Monte Corp is taking care of Nancy then they must be taking care of all the people they employ.

So just to sum up my own stance on this matter:
1. A free market is not free when the government sets the worth of an employee and not the market, I believe in some circles this is called Socialism.
2. It doesn’t matter which party you represent, once you decide to be a career politician your job becomes representing the people who fund you and manipulating the ones that vote for you.

[YogsVR4]

Any type of government price control is bad for the worker and consumer. Wage laws, price fixing, terrifs and taxes are all ways that the government buys votes and takes money out of your pockets. The fact that Pelosi has 17 million invested in a Tuna packing company in Somoa that just 'happens' to be in her home district and Somoa just 'happens' to be the only place exempt from this law should both reinforce that she's a hypocrit and wage controls are a bad thing.

Let the market decide.

[taranaki]

Pelosi is abusing her position.So what? Most politicians from the President down do it.Wage controls are essential in order to stop a small element of dishonest employers from exploiting the weakest members of society. Not all of us are fortunate enough to be skilled and literate, but even the humblest vegetable picker should be entitled to make an honest living from a full week's work. Without a reasonable chance of covering the basic bills at the end of a working week, there is no motivation for the bottom tier to show up for work. Of course, if you want to follow the pro-slavery argument to its logical conclusion, why not break a few more laws? Instead of just ignoring your democratically elected leaders on the minimum wage issue, why not hire a few wetbacks to do the job for you? Hell, that's just another socalist conspiracy to stop you from ripping as much profit out of your business as you can get away with!

It's funny how it's only those who are comfortably off who support the free market. There's no shortage of Socialist millionaires, so what are the selfish free marketeers afraid of?

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Any type of government price control is bad for the worker and consumer. Wage laws, price fixing, terrifs and taxes are all ways that the government buys votes and takes money out of your pockets. The fact that Pelosi has 17 million invested in a Tuna packing company in Somoa that just 'happens' to be in her home district and Somoa just 'happens' to be the only place exempt from this law should both reinforce that she's a hypocrit and wage controls are a bad thing.

Let the market decide.

there is no such thing as a free market in a civilized society, that would be as stupid as having no police enforcement in LA. here in the US you have thousands of market interventions from the SEC, FDA, NHSTA and many more. A free market results in rippoffs like Enron, cars that are unsafe at any speed, unsafe shoddy products and business taking advantage of workers by paying below the poverty level.

even if the min wage goes to $7.50 the min wage workers at the univeristy here will have to work 44 years to earn what the football coach makes in 1 year, and the differntial is even greater in the business world.

[taranaki]

Just looking at the Department Of Labor website relevant to this case,

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/ameri.../ASminwage.htm

It would appear that the labor market in American Samoa is run by the US, prescribing minimum rates on a 'by industry' basis. Seems to be far more restrictive than a flat minimum wage.Did Nancy Pelosi set up this bureaucratic nightmare?Nope, no prizes for guessing who did.

The minimum wage was never applicable in American Samoa and this whole article is nothing more than a cheap and nasty attempt at Dem-bashing by the neocons. Rep. Eric Cantor, Virginia Republican,really ought to try harder. One of his researchers comes up with a tenuous connection between an American based multinational and Nancy Pelosi and he starts slinging the shit while convieniently omitting the vast majority of Del Monte's employees WILL qualify for the minimum wage.

Either way, this whole thread is now moot.The Democrats have now announced that ALL US territories will be included in the deal, including the
Northern Mariana Islands, where the minimum wage has been $3.05 for a decade,largely thanks to disgraced and convicted Repubilan lobbyist Jack Abramoff......


No doubt if the Democrats had included all of the territories not previously covered by the universal minimum wage [including American Samoa],Eric Cantor or some other dirtbag like him would try to smear their efforts.After all, that's all a politician can do when he's on the losing team!

[gdalton]

Originally Posted by taranaki
Either way, this whole thread is now moot.The Democrats have now announced that ALL US territories will be included in the deal, including the
Northern Mariana Islands, where the minimum wage has been $3.05 for a decade,largely thanks to disgraced and convicted Repubilan lobbyist Jack Abramoff......


No doubt if the Democrats had included all of the territories not previously covered by the universal minimum wage [including American Samoa

,Eric Cantor or some other dirtbag like him would try to smear their efforts.After all, that's all a politician can do when he's on the losing team!

Oh I see so you are saying before they got called out for not putting in an amendment which would make this new MW law applicable to everyone they couldn't do any thing about it, but once they did get called on it they figured out away to place that amendment.
So they figured they only needed to do something if someone got pissed about it, otherwise they where more then willing to push it through as is.

You don’t find it slightly odd that they didn’t put this amendment in the first time through but had no problem putting it in for the second round. No of course not this whole argument is moot because of neocons hiding on the grassy noel waiting on Pelosi to drive by in a convertible.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by gdalton

Oh I see so you are saying before they got called out for not putting in an amendment which would make this new MW law applicable to everyone they couldn't do any thing about it, but once they did get called on it they figured out away to place that amendment.
So they figured they only needed to do something if someone got pissed about it, otherwise they where more then willing to push it through as is.

You don’t find it slightly odd that they didn’t put this amendment in the first time through but had no problem putting it in for the second round. No of course not this whole argument is moot because of neocons hiding on the grassy noel waiting on Pelosi to drive by in a convertible.

Wrong end of the stick.

the U.S. territories are not covered by the existing legislation. When the Democrats proposed legislation to raise the minimum wage, they threw in a small group of islands where the minimum wage was set at near-slavery levels.To suggest that they ignored American Samoa,which has its own comprehensive set of minimum wage laws set by a US committee,simply because one of the employers on this insignificant outposts is a tiny part of a multinational company that just happens to have its head office in Nancy Pelosi's district is so insignificant as to be dirtmongering.

Del Monte is a huge concern ,with thousands of minimum wage workers on the US mainland. Any raise in the minimum wage will affect them hugely,regardless of whether one sector of their operations is included or not.


The fact that the Democrats are perfectly happy to add the previously ignored territories into the legislation without wasting time arguing seems reasonable and obvious.It's the Democrats who want to raise wages, not the Republicans. The bottom line is that nobody really gives a damn about a few offshore islands.To suggest that because that they were overlooked[yet again] in the original draft they are the kingpin in a huge conspiracy,is a desperate tactic by a failed administration and only a fool would fall for it.

This new legislation will hurt Del Monte whether the operation at Samoa is included or not. Pelosi is doing them no favours, and by trying to smear Pelosi, Cantor has just added to their woes. The tuna canning industry in mainland America was all but wiped out by previous governments' failure to include US territories in the mainland minimum wage legislation. while factories in the South Pacific were churning out millions of tons of cheap fish using underpaid labour for the American market every year, the mainland factories were being held back by environmental compliance costs and legislation that required them to pay a basic wage.

Food prices are being kept artificially high in the US by environmental compliance legislation, labour costs, and tarriffs/quotas imposed on nations that can produce similar products and ship them across the world for less than America can make them. If gdalton,Yogs et al want a totally free market, perhaps they can explain how they would feed the millions of Americans who would be squeezed out of the global labour market as a direct result.

[xeroinfinity]

I feel sorry for those who have to work for minimum wage.
Hell you need two of those jobs just to live.

With one job they are just existing, getting by paycheck to paycheck.
Thats why imigrants are taking all the jobs. They did the same stuff but for 1/3 of our MWage.

The inflasion of goods in the US has risen alot over the last 10 yrs, minimum wage should be at least $10/hr+.

I also heard oour wonderful president was going to veto the raise on MW anyways.... what an a** Hole !

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by xeroinfinity

I also heard oour wonderful president was going to veto the raise on MW anyways.... what an a** Hole !

Where did you hear that from JC? He supports the MW increase but wants assurance small business owners are given relief that would cushion the blow for small businesses.

Click here

President Bush for the first time endorsed a specific plan for raising the federal minimum wage yesterday, as he embraced Democratic calls to boost it by $2.10, to $7.25 an hour, over two years.

The president's backing greatly enhances the prospects for congressional approval next year of the first hike in the federal minimum wage since 1997. He stressed, however, that it should be accompanied by tax breaks and regulatory relief that would cushion the blow for small businesses.

The White House issued a statement of opposition to the legislation as drafted. It called for the increase to be accompanied by "tax and regulatory relief to help small businesses stay competitive and to help the economy keep growing."

It doesn't mean he will veto.

[xeroinfinity]

I "heard" it on CNN or MSNBC(i know dont believe everything they say) a couple weeks ago.
I guess they might have been talking about him vetoing it if the small business owners didnt get thier breaks.

So I bet he has a small business or ttwo

Hell Mc.D's pays $7.20hr to start out around here right now.

Doesnt really bother me one way or the other

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by xeroinfinity

I "heard" it on CNN or MSNBC(i know dont believe everything they say) a couple weeks ago.
I guess they might have been talking about him vetoing it if the small business owners didnt get thier breaks.

So I bet he has a small business or ttwo

Hell Mc.D's pays $7.20hr to start out around here right now.

Doesnt really bother me one way or the other

Personally, I would like to see the minimum wage increase become law. It is about time.

I was a small business owner and I can see the reasoning. Darn payroll taxes will kill you. I understand the Senate version is in committee and their version may contain the small business clause.

It is just a matter of the House and Senate getting the bugs worked out where everyone is satisfied and then to the President for signature. Of course, there will be some delays as usual but hopefully it will all work out.

I don't recall but one or possibly two times that Bush has ever vetoed any bill since he has been in office. That was the stem cell issue which may be rendered moot since scientists supposedly can get stem cells from embryonic fluid and the placenta.

[gdalton]

Originally Posted by taranaki

To suggest that they ignored American Samoa,which has its own comprehensive set of minimum wage laws set by a US committee,simply because one of the employers on this insignificant outposts is a tiny part of a multinational company that just happens to have its head office in Nancy Pelosi's district is so insignificant as to be dirtmongering.

Taranaki, you so funny.


Ok, now for some of xeroinfinity points, just to clear a few things up.
What do you think some of the causes of inflation are?
I’ll give you a very brief answer that in no way covers everything but her ya go.
When you drive the price of production of goods up you increase the cost of the final good. Raising the wage of employees is one way to raise the price of production.
When you increase the amount of money in circulation you get an increase in demand on goods and as a result of a finite amount of said goods the price will increase with demand until equilibrium is attained. More money to more people equals higher prices, or if you will “market determines price.”
These are only two reasons for inflation, there are many more forces involved and it would take far more then a thread on a forum to explain it all (not that I could).
But you did hit on one important fact, the purchasing power of money. As inflation rises your purchasing power per dollar is reduced (again there are many other factors to this but I’m trying to keep it simple) so you may bring home more money but you can buy less with it. This is why they don’t raise the MW to $10 or even $20 per hour because such an influx in money would really screw things up, so we get $7.15 which we will take two years to get to. Now this will not make a huge difference in purchasing power for the recipient of the raise and it will make little difference in over all inflation, basically a wash for everyone involved. A lot of political posturing for very little gain except for publicity and a whole lot of people thinking they should vote for the guy that got them a raise.
One more thing I think gets overlooked a lot here; a MW job is for workers with very little skill and usually is just a beginning to a better position. Now obviously this isn’t always true, there are many out there who get a bad role of the dice and are forced to work these kinds of jobs, but most should not be stuck in a MW position for their entire life, they should develop marketable skills and receive raises in there income in accordance with there accomplishments. Again this doesn’t always happen but lets face it if you can only work for MW you probably should try to hold off on raising a family until you CAN afford it. I know it’s hard but responsibility should fall on your shoulders and not the governments.

Ok so I’m sure I have pissed some more people off so I figured I should say that MW laws do some good but I personally feel that the states should have more of a hand in it then do the feds. Price of living can change drastically from one state to another, I could live like a fat rat in the hills of W. Virginia on $35k a year but I would starve and be homeless if I tried that in say northern Cali. I still don’t like the government forcing wage laws but the states would have a better picture as to where those wages should be then would the feds.

So there you go my warped view on economics in a few short paragraphs, I’m sure that will be just enough to convince some that I am a crazed right wing neocon who eats babies while planning world domination with my Sunday school teacher. But I assure you I go to church on Saturdays.

[xeroinfinity]

I just feel 7.20$hr over two years is to little to late.

And the House and Senate
They get paid to argue all day

On the stem Cell research, I heard they can also take them from your own bone marrow now, thats sweeet !

[fredjacksonsan]

A spokeswoman for Mrs. Pelosi said Wednesday that the speaker has not been lobbied in any way by StarKist or Del Monte.






Sure she hasn't.

[BNaylor]

Queen Nancy