Wheel play Question

[djd99]

Howdy I've been having a little slop in my steering lately so it's time to tighten the front up. With the truck on the hoist I could move the front tires to the left and right about 1" either way. It appeared that the slop was coming from the idler arm so 30 minuites and $30.00 later I figured all of the slop was gone. But there is still a little play in it not much but you can still move it maybe 1'4" eitherway. My question is how much play should there be if any at all. I was thinking that the center link could possiby be sloppy but everything appears to be tight. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks Don
2000 S10 Blazer
70,000 miles

[Chris Stewart]

Did you replace the idler arm? How does it drive now?

[djd99]

Yes I did I picked up a TRW from Advanced Auto and it did tighten it up quite abit but there still is a little slop And I wanted to know if thats normal. Now I have a nice growl on the front pass side so i'm going to pick up a bearing/hub assembly in the morning.

[DelCoch]

Originally Posted by djd99

. . . still is a little slop And I wanted to know if thats normal.

Proper procedure for checking an idler arm for looseness or wear.

• The suspension should be normally loaded on the ground or on an alignment rack. When raised by a frame contact hoist, the vehicle's steering linkage is allowed to hang, and proper testing cannot be done.

• Jerking the front wheel and tire assembly back and forth (causing an up- and down-movement in the idler arm) is not an acceptable method of checking, as there is no control on the amount of force being applied.

• Check the idler arm ends for worn sockets or deteriorated bushings.

• Grasp the center link firmly with your hand at the idler arm end.

• Push up with approximately a 25-pound (110 N) load.

• Pull down with the same load.

• The allowable movement of the idler arm and support assembly in one direction is 1/8 inch (3 mm), for a total acceptable movement of 1/4 inch (6 mm).

• The load can be accurately measured by using a dial indicator or pull spring scale located as near the center link end of the idler arm as possible.

• Keep in mind that the test forces should not exceed 25 pounds (110 N), as even a new idler arm might be forced to show movement due to steel flexing when excessive pressure is applied.

• It is also necessary that a scale or ruler be rested against the frame and used to determine the amount of movement.

• Observers tend to overestimate the actual movement when a scale is not used.

The idler arm should always be replaced if it fails this test.


Center Links - may also be called a Drag Link, Connecting Arm or Steering Arm Rod.

• When inspecting the center link, look closely to insure it has not been bent or damaged.
• Grasp the center link firmly and try moving it in all directions.
• Any movement, or sign of damage, is reason for replacement.
• Tapered openings seldom wear but should be checked for enlargement caused by a loose connection. If necessary, replace the center link.

Tie-rod end

• Tie-rod end and center link inspections are similar.
• Grasp the tie-rod end firmly.
• Push vertically with the stud, and inspect for movement at the joint with the steering knuckle.

• Any movement over 1/8 inch (3 mm) or observation of damaged or missing parts, such as seals, is sufficient evidence that replacement is necessary.

• An additional check of the tie-rods can be made by rotating each tie-rod end to feel for roughness or binding, which could indicate that the socket has probably rusted internally. A special puller is often required to separate a tie-rod end from the steering knuckle.

[Scrapper]

you need to get alignment checked as you changed idler arm also it changed the toe in or out...



SCRAPPER....

[djd99]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

you need to get alignment checked as you changed idler arm also it changed the toe in or out...



SCRAPPER....

I agree that is next on my todo list after I change my Hub Today.

[djd99]

Originally Posted by DelCoch

Proper procedure for checking an idler arm for looseness or wear.

• The suspension should be normally loaded on the ground or on an alignment rack. When raised by a frame contact hoist, the vehicle's steering linkage is allowed to hang, and proper testing cannot be done.

• Jerking the front wheel and tire assembly back and forth (causing an up- and down-movement in the idler arm) is not an acceptable method of checking, as there is no control on the amount of force being applied.

• Check the idler arm ends for worn sockets or deteriorated bushings.

• Grasp the center link firmly with your hand at the idler arm end.

• Push up with approximately a 25-pound (110 N) load.

• Pull down with the same load.

• The allowable movement of the idler arm and support assembly in one direction is 1/8 inch (3 mm), for a total acceptable movement of 1/4 inch (6 mm).

• The load can be accurately measured by using a dial indicator or pull spring scale located as near the center link end of the idler arm as possible.

• Keep in mind that the test forces should not exceed 25 pounds (110 N), as even a new idler arm might be forced to show movement due to steel flexing when excessive pressure is applied.

• It is also necessary that a scale or ruler be rested against the frame and used to determine the amount of movement.

• Observers tend to overestimate the actual movement when a scale is not used.

The idler arm should always be replaced if it fails this test.


Center Links - may also be called a Drag Link, Connecting Arm or Steering Arm Rod.

• When inspecting the center link, look closely to insure it has not been bent or damaged.
• Grasp the center link firmly and try moving it in all directions.
• Any movement, or sign of damage, is reason for replacement.
• Tapered openings seldom wear but should be checked for enlargement caused by a loose connection. If necessary, replace the center link.

Tie-rod end

• Tie-rod end and center link inspections are similar.
• Grasp the tie-rod end firmly.
• Push vertically with the stud, and inspect for movement at the joint with the steering knuckle.

• Any movement over 1/8 inch (3 mm) or observation of damaged or missing parts, such as seals, is sufficient evidence that replacement is necessary.

• An additional check of the tie-rods can be made by rotating each tie-rod end to feel for roughness or binding, which could indicate that the socket has probably rusted internally. A special puller is often required to separate a tie-rod end from the steering knuckle.

Thank You for this information it was very helpful...

[DelCoch]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

you need to get alignment checked as you changed idler arm also it changed the toe in or out...SCRAPPER....

No, No, No, No - Replacing the idler arm will not affect the toe-in.

[Scrapper]

oh yes it will..as i am a good alignment man..20 years on the job....

[djd99]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

oh yes it will..as i am a good alignment man..20 years on the job....

I agree after changing the ilder arm now my steering is off as it was fine before so changing this part definitly throws off the alignment. But I also agree that Installing a idler arm does not throw off toe in and out due to these settings never being touched. I'm going to try adjusting it my self buy trying to adjust the idler arm mount. I maybe able to get it back to where it was before replacing the arm. Don

[Chris Stewart]

Great page of info Delcoch!!!!

[DelCoch]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

oh yes it will..as i am a good alignment man..20 years on the job....

Ok, I stand corrected. If the idler arm has adjustable slots at the frame mounting bolts then it will affect toe-in if the new idler arm is not replaced exactly back in the same place, or if the new idler arm is of different size or length from the old one.

[Chris Stewart]

70K doesn't seem to be many miles to have a worn out front end parts.

[old_master]

The distance between the ground and the outer tie rod ends is always the same while driving, (unless you're airborn). The distance between the ground and the idler arm/center link connection constantly varies vertically with weight change on the suspension while driving.

If the steering linkage were always perfectly parallel to the ground, there would never be any change in total toe. However, while the center link must be installed parallel with the chassis to avoid "bump steer", the tie rods are NOT parallel with the chassis. The inner ends are always higher than the outer ends. The center link is held parallel to the chassis by the pitman arm on the left side, and by the idler arm on the right side. As the suspension loads, the center link and inner tie rod ends move downward and the inner tie rods become closer to horizontal. This action causes the distance between the outer tie rod mounts, in the steering knuckles, to increase. The increase in distance will cause excessive toe out on GM “T” series vehicles. When the suspension unloads, the opposite occurs.

As the idler arm wears, the amount of total toe from loaded to unloaded, is increased. When the idler arm is replaced, that tolerance is brought back to the allowable limit and will also bring total toe back to where it was before the bushings became worn. Steering linkage, suspension, and wheel alignment, are all about geometry. Understanding how it applies is half the battle.

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by old_master

As the suspension loads, the overall length of the linkage increases.

impossible. the length of the linkage never changes, but the distance between the fixed point (idler arm) and the variable point (the tire angle) changes with the angle of the linkage causing the tire to move with the change in angle of the tie rod. to see this in action pick up one end of a pencil and watch the other end come in and imagine it attached to the lower ball joint drawing the lower half of the tire in and out as the angle changes.