Ongoing problems with 1997 Grand Voyager Brakes

[snorkmaiden]

Hi, this is my first post so go easy on me

When we moved to this country (from England) in 2003 we bought a 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye in a private sale (mistake number 1) it looked great, felt great, we searched it's history and it appeared to be okay - no major accidents.

The brake pads appeared to be worn down so we took it to a well known brake place in these parts and they replaced the front brakes, told us we needed the back brakes replacing but we didn't have enough cash that day and took it back a few days later. They then told us (oh we are suckers) that somehow, mysteriously, someone had put oil in the brake fluid (not us) and that it was contaminated and we needed pretty much everything replacing.

At that time they replaced, (and I am quoting this from receipts - I don't actually know what a lot of this stuff is) Disc Pads, Rotor, Drum, wheel cylinders, calipers, caliper pistons, disc hardware, shim kit, master cylinder, power booster, ABS unit, Prop Valve at a cost of over $1000 on top of the $500 or so we had spent a few days earlier.

Since then we have had to go back repeatedly. The brakes keep failing. The first time I couldn't stop at the lights, sailed right through, all the kids in the car, luckily no-one hit me. My father was over on holiday and emailed their head office threatening them with all kinds as only fathers who narrowly miss losing daughters can do, and they agreed to do whatever was neccessary to rectify the situation.

Four years later and we are still having to go back regularly.

The master cylinder has been replaced several times, the ABS unit, wheel cylinders, disc pads, pistons - all that stuff, over and over again.

The longest we have gone without issue is one year. They seem to have no idea what is causing this and now they are sick of it and the car is there today, having the brake system bled, which seems to be their only solution. This means the car is unsafe every few weeks as we lose the brakes.

We can't sell it in this condition and we are not really keen to buy a new car as we plan to move back to UK.

The brake place is saying it is a fault with this car - the car itself, that there is nothing more they can do.

We have spent thousands on it and if we take it somewhere new, we will need to start again.

Any suggestions? Is there some issue with this model and it's braking system?

[RIP]

It's pretty obvious your current mechanics are missing something and you are paying the price. It's far past the time to take it somewhere else. Do some research and ask around for the best place to go.

Don't see any recalls or service bulletins effecting your problems. There's complaints about brake noises but, that's about it.

Bleeding the brakes after ABS system component replacement on these vans requires the use of a scanner tool and can't be bled in the normal way. Are they doing that? If they are repeatedly bleeding your brakes you either have a leak somewhere, the seals in the master cylinder are bad, they are doing it wrong or as you say they are tired of seeing you and want you out of there pronto. That brings us back to my first paragraph.

Another cause of spongy brakes is a weak booster. Let it run a minute or so then turn it off. Now apply the brakes. Should be firm pressure for at least two to three applications. If not, the booster or it's vacuum source is bad.

[snorkmaiden]

Thank you, we thought as much but were reluctant to fork out thousands more for someone else to try and get to the bottom of it, we love the car but we've put more than it's actually worth into it by way of repairs. (serpentine belt and tensioner twice, water pump twice etc).

I will have my husband ask how they are bleeding it when he goes to pick it up, he did ask them to look for a leak today.

It has had the booster replaced, it seems there must be a leak somewhere but they swear they can't find what it is, they did take it over to the Chrysler garage at one point for them to look at it as well but that didn't appear to help.

Thanks again for your input.

[RIP]

You may want to talk to the dealership again since they had their hands on it once. Considering your history with a safety related system they should get a Chrysler area rep involved to get this figured out. You losing your brakes in an accident after all this work wouldn't put Chrysler in a very good light at a trial.

[snorkmaiden]

Thanks, I am just reading up on the company who is fixing our brakes and they have some very similar stories posted about them online so I am going to contact their head office and Chrysler and see if I can get one of them to come up with a solution.

[RIP]

Sounds like a plan. Keep in touch.

OBTW - Lived in Norfolk England for 5+ years in a little town called Mundford. There are times we wish we were still there. Had a rough time the first year getting use to the differences. By the time we left we hated to leave.

[nixonrules]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the first brake shop that "discovered" oil in the brakes not only took advantage of you, but nearly got you killed.

While it is relatively easy to replace the caliper, rotors, master cylinder, etc, if the system were contaminated as you describe, there is a good chance they should have replaced the brake lines as well or thoroghly flushed the system. Brake lines are not easy to replace which may have deterred them from doing this work. Also, the rubber in the flex lines going from the frame to the caliper in the front are subject to contamination by oil (on the inside) so they should have been replaced.

It just burns me up when I hear about shops taking advantage of customers like that. I was convinced long ago to "do it myself" unless the tools are too expensive. I know this is not an option for everyone, but you are doing the right thing by posting here. You will get some good feedback from some very knowledgeable folks.

[Mrbizness1]

Originally Posted by snorkmaiden

Hi, this is my first post so go easy on me
The brake place is saying it is a fault with this car - the car itself, that there is nothing more they can do.

You probably will get nothing from Chrysler Corp. due to the cars age and the work was done by an outside shop. But if this shop is part of a retail chain of repair stores then I would get the name of a corporate executive and write a POLITE letter asking for help. I would include a copy of all the repair invoices and any statements made by their employees. From what you have written this seems to be lousy repairs and poor quality aftermarket parts. It has been some time since your first repair but if it's a decent company you should get some satisfaction. I recently wrote a letter to a company exec. about three faulty alternator repairs and received a response about 7 weeks later. They had a local employee check out my complaint and gave me full reimbursement. The local rep. told me her orders from the top were to "satisfy the customer" I still use this shop for mechanical repairs.
Good luck
PS I have a Dodge g/van with 115k and execpt for replacing the rear wheel cylinders, I have never had any brake problems and average 43k miles on the front pads.

[snorkmaiden]

Thank you everyone. When my husband picked the car up this afternoon they said they had found a "hairline" crack in one of the brake lines and have replaced it.

I will see how it drives over the next few days. If it starts to fail again I will contact their head office. Thankfully I have kept all of the invoices and so have plenty of evidence to confirm what has supposedly been replaced and done over the time we've been going to them.

I really appreciate the input.

OBTW - Lived in Norfolk England for 5+ years in a little town called Mundford. There are times we wish we were still there. Had a rough time the first year getting use to the differences. By the time we left we hated to leave.

The culture shock is pretty tough whichever way you move in the first couple of years I think. I have absolutely no idea how I will get used to driving in the UK again after driving here, the roads and the parking spaces are so much smaller.

[RIP]

Originally Posted by snorkmaiden

The culture shock is pretty tough whichever way you move in the first couple of years I think. I have absolutely no idea how I will get used to driving in the UK again after driving here, the roads and the parking spaces are so much smaller.

Good news. Hope your problems are history.

When I went to England I didn't have a hard time changing over to English roads. We shipped an American car over so we didn't have to deal with both being on the wrong side of the road and the car. Did make it tough to pass on those two lane bike trails they call roads. I had major problems when I came back to the states including a fender bender a week after arriving. You guessed it. I was on the wrong side of the road. I went through a lot of honking horns and snears. It took me a couple months to break the English habits. One thing we do miss are the roundabouts. They made life so much easier. Would I go back? In a second. It was one of the best periods of our lives. Cheers!