93 TS 3800 - transmission problem

[jkrzyz]

Hi, i,m looking for description of error code 39 (TCC FAILURE)
My car drives only 2 and 3 gear, no other errors are present and no Service Engine Soon light.
Trans fluid and filter is fresh new.
I checked car with ALDL monitor and found nothing special except that:
when brake pedal is pressed, QDMA state is set to error.

[LMP]

www.avigex.ca/xport/dtc39.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/dtc39test.jpg

gears 1 and 4 require solenoid A

www.avigex.ca/xport/transmissionranges.jpg

[jkrzyz]

Hi.

Thanks a lot LMP, your manual is very useful. I've bought one on ebay, but it will take some time I get it.
I made some checks as it is described in manual and road test with my self-made aldl monitor.
It looks like tranny shifts all gears ok and has problem with TCC.
There is no single sign that TCC is applied by computer, i can figure out it happens only by looking at aldl monitor.
It seems resistance and operation of all solenoids is correct.
Next to check is torque converter or tranny internals.
I think there is problem inside tranny, blown gasket or choked valve, because there was no signs that something is wrong before lock-up stops working and few times, unexpectly, tcc engaged. It happens when I closed trottle after hard acceleration, above 4000 rpm. It springs to mind vacuum and modulator. It is possible that modulator affects tcc?
Is there something else to check before I start pullig-out engine?

Plase forgive me poor english.

[LMP]

If all gears work OK now and all you have is TCC problems, I suggest you consider the price and trouble of having it back on line compared to the amount of extra fuel needed without TCC before dropping the engine/transmission.. except if you just want and like the adventure. I've done such things before.

i'd suggest first to disconnect TCC solenoid at pins D and A on transmisison plug and see what happens then. You will of course have DTC 39 show up....again., but then you will know why.
Except these outside considerations, I have not "played" with this transmission yet..wish I can keep it that way.
Nicke66 has more experience with monitoring the transmission with his laptop interface. I'd be surprised not to see his comments soon.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by jkrzyz

Hi, i,m looking for description of error code 39 (TCC FAILURE)
My car drives only 2 and 3 gear, no other errors are present and no Service Engine Soon light.
Trans fluid and filter is fresh new.
I checked car with ALDL monitor and found nothing special except that:
when brake pedal is pressed, QDMA state is set to error.

If all 4 gears work good and shift good.
And no codes except 39.
First check the fuse and wiring and also the tcc brake switch.
Does the cruise control work good?
If it is good here is some info on testing.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/transport.pdf
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

[jkrzyz]

Thanks for your answer. I checked electrical side of my problem.
Solenoids have good resistance and click when powered (excluding pwm solenoid - this is silent one). All volts and grounds are ok.
Computer operation is ok, i've checked it on road with aldl monitor.
Btw, driving car and looking at laptop screen at once requires wide, empty road.
Broken lock-up has side effect - computer don't shifts to 4-th gear.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by jkrzyz

Thanks for your answer. I checked electrical side of my problem.
Solenoids have good resistance and click when powered (excluding pwm solenoid - this is silent one). All volts and grounds are ok.
Computer operation is ok, i've checked it on road with aldl monitor.
Btw, driving car and looking at laptop screen at once requires wide, empty road.
Broken lock-up has side effect - computer don't shifts to 4-th gear.

If no 4 th gear you need to fix that first before the lockup will work.
It may need a good transmission capable scanner check.
Something should be showing up on the 4 th gear problem.
Does the cruise still work?
Have you tried a battery disconnect?
Jumper a and b pins and read codes.
If it has a vacuum modulator check vacuum to it.
Is the engine running up to par?
The engine running has to be good for the transmission to work right.
On a normal take off what speeds are the 1-2 shift and the 2-3 shift?
Can you feel a lockup in 3 gear?
Not that there is not good help here but.
If all else fails here is a link to a good trans forum.
http://www.batauto.com/Forums/index.php?board=5.0
Try a post there.
Good luck
MT

[jkrzyz]

I've made some more road tests, here is sample:

http://fire.gmb.pl/car-graph.gif

As you can see, there is no problem with gears, tranny shifts 1-2-3-4 after ign. switch off/on. PCM attempts to apply TCC twice with no success and then shifts back to 3 gear. I belive this is to avoid tranny overheating that can happens when driving 4 gear with no TCC.

Unfortunatelly, when I check fluid last time, I found it smells burnt and looks dark Correct me if I'm wrong, but it means tranny->rebuild?

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by jkrzyz

I've made some more road tests, here is sample:

http://fire.gmb.pl/car-graph.gif

As you can see, there is no problem with gears, tranny shifts 1-2-3-4 after ign. switch off/on. PCM attempts to apply TCC twice with no success and then shifts back to 3 gear. I belive this is to avoid tranny overheating that can happens when driving 4 gear with no TCC.

Unfortunatelly, when I check fluid last time, I found it smells burnt and looks dark Correct me if I'm wrong, but it means tranny->rebuild?

Black fluid and burnt smell is not good.
But old fluid can look dark brown and smell bad.
You might want to pull oil pan and look in bottom and check filter.

[jkrzyz]

Originally Posted by MT-2500

Black fluid and burnt smell is not good.
But old fluid can look dark brown and smell bad.
You might want to pull oil pan and look in bottom and check filter.

Unfortunatelly, fluid is less than 500 miles old.
I have pretty good fluid-burning machine now ;-)

[LMP]

Originally Posted by jkrzyz

I've made some more road tests, here is sample:
http://fire.gmb.pl/car-graph.gif
As you can see, there is no problem with gears, tranny shifts 1-2-3-4 ?

Nice graph....I'm still planning to build the interface suggested on this german website... http://www.pontiac-interface.de
is this the one you use?

[jkrzyz]

This is interface I'm using:

http://www.home.aone.net.au/~techedge/vehicle/2tran.gif

[nicke66]

Originally Posted by jkrzyz

This is interface I'm using:

http://www.home.aone.net.au/~techedge/vehicle/2tran.gif

That is a more primitive interface than the interface suggested at the german website, using a MAX 232 curcuit. But as long as it works, it does the same.

What kind of software are you using? The DOS-software developed by the german Manfred Stuhlfelder does not include any graph function, but allows you to record data when driving, and it is possible later to "play" the data in "fast mode".

Manfred is unfortunate dead. There are som germans, Mattias who runs the website, and some more, trying to develop a new windows software. So far, only a beta-version has been "reliesed" a year ago.